Kris Boyd - 'Football is now a Middle Class sport'

[ICTChris]

From this thread I've come up with the following plan to get us to a World Cup asap

- Re-establish the Soviet Union

- Abolish Playstations.

- More violence in society

- More immigrants.

- Running on sand dunes

- Check all players for IQ but disqualify them if they are also posh.

I'm calling it Project Bravo.

[Binos]

Kris Boyd is a fud and had no talent

[Gaz]

1 minute ago, Binos said:

Kris Boyd is a fud and had no talent

Well, that's just wrong (the second point anyway).

[the jambo-rocker]

6 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

It's claimed there's rising support within the governing body for leaving youth development exclusively to Scotland's clubs. The SFA spends £700,000-a-year on seven flagship performance schools and they could come under the microscope.

SFA directors  plan to assess how much value a performance spend of £3 million a year really delivers.

In 2017, the SFA launched Project Brave, created in consultation with clubs and designed to overhaul the youth system. It included the introduction of a Reserve League which a number of top flight clubs, including Celtic and Rangers, have already decided to boycott.

Celtic, Rangers and Hearts prefer to devote resources to their own academies and senior SFA figures now believe this is the way ahead for young players.

Chief executive Ian Maxwell has been looking at ways to streamline association functions and that process is likely to quicken.

I think the performance schools is one of the few things we're doing right. It might need refinement in some areas, probably repealing a fair bit the of project brave elements, but I don't see how an environment that puts emphasis on extra coaching and education can be preserved as not fit for purpose, especially as seven years is absolutely not a long enough timeframe to see the results bare fruit. The oldest graduates of this system would only just have entered the 20s, which isn't nearly enough time to judge upon.

It would be incredibly myopic to drop it right now, start something new, and whether it's working or not, drop that system in 5 years time or when the next top 10 fifa ranked country pumps us 4-0.

[Boaby Fisher]

3 hours ago, Shandon Par said:

I suppose the Belgian example emphasises the importance of education as well as football. Maybe it's coincidence but Ryan Fraser and Andy Robertson have been arguably the highest profile Scots in recent times and, unless I'm missing anyone, come across as unusually bright as Scottish footballers go. They've been bright enough to hold their own in a very high pressure environment with high-profile, bright coaches. Go through the Belgian team and it's full of multilingual guys with degrees. The players can walk into any dressing room in Europe and soon hold their own. Scottish guys usually can't. Even an English League One or Championship setup can be too big a leap from the comfort zone of pals/booze etc. Being good academically won't help you control the ball but it can help with dealing with pressure, understanding instructions, self belief. 

 

 

I don't think so. England have their best side since 1996 (probably since 1970 tbh) and I don't see many intellectual heavyweights in that team. Their strength is probably athleticism and pace. Maybe Southgate figured out that he couldn't compete with the creativity and flair of the very top teams and built his team on pace and fitness. Not sure if that helps us, as there aren't a lot of those types of players (Sterling, Sancho, Alexander-Arnold etc) in the frame. I do think however, that the other 'home nations' and possibly the Scandinavians are the countries that we need to look at to see what is working or not working. We're never going to be Spain, Italy or Germany, and I think England's relative success under Southgate comes from him realizing the same thing.

[Jeremiah Cole]

If our international side adopted the long ball game, like Ireland under Jack Charlton or Norway under Egil Olsen, then our results would immediately improve.

[HibeeJibee]

1 hour ago, the jambo-rocker said:

I think the performance schools is one of the few things we're doing right. It might need refinement in some areas, probably repealing a fair bit the of project brave elements, but I don't see how an environment that puts emphasis on extra coaching and education can be preserved as not fit for purpose, especially as seven years is absolutely not a long enough timeframe to see the results bare fruit. The oldest graduates of this system would only just have entered the 20s, which isn't nearly enough time to judge upon.

It would be incredibly myopic to drop it right now, start something new, and whether it's working or not, drop that system in 5 years time or when the next top 10 fifa ranked country pumps us 4-0.

Agreed - it's surely impossible to judge: the first pupils have only just started reaching adulthood then passing into full-time football. My guess is they will ask the government or councils to bear more of the costs and/or else look to centralise on fewer schools than currently, in the cities.

Of course while they're spending "big" sums on performance schools, regional coaching, etc. they're also paying "big" sums in subsidy and performance payments - moreso under ProjectBrave - out to clubs. It'll be interesting to see if those pulling the strings want to cut those.

I certainly suspect that if you told all the people bemoaning the state of the game on Friday / Monday that the solution could be cutting spending, and returning to 'laissez faire' by leaving youth development to (the big) clubs, they'd be very surprised. Traditionally the clubs weren't trusted to give native youth a sufficient chance, and there was insufficient cohesive strategy.

[Scary Bear]

3 hours ago, ICTChris said:

From this thread I've come up with the following plan to get us to a World Cup asap

- Re-establish the Soviet Union

- Abolish Playstations.

- More violence in society

- More immigrants.

- Running on sand dunes

- Check all players for IQ but disqualify them if they are also posh.

I'm calling it Project Bravo.

- Promote poverty

- Ban the middle classes from playing football as players produced will be too soft

- Force kids living in poverty to play football

[Scary Bear]

We need to study a country with the same shitty climate as us. Get Iceland’s version of Rinus Michels and start a Think Tank. 

Are the players in Iceland middle class or  working class?

[Bing.McCrosby]

2 hours ago, Jeremiah Cole said:

If our international side adopted the long ball game, like Ireland under Jack Charlton or Norway under Egil Olsen, then our results would immediately improve.

Well that's an opinion

[Gordopolis]

I think the performance schools is one of the few things we're doing right. It might need refinement in some areas, probably repealing a fair bit the of project brave elements, but I don't see how an environment that puts emphasis on extra coaching and education can be preserved as not fit for purpose, especially as seven years is absolutely not a long enough timeframe to see the results bare fruit. The oldest graduates of this system would only just have entered the 20s, which isn't nearly enough time to judge upon.

It would be incredibly myopic to drop it right now, start something new, and whether it's working or not, drop that system in 5 years time or when the next top 10 fifa ranked country pumps us 4-0.

Is there a list of the players that have come thru the Performance Schools? Interested to see where they're at

 

 

ETA: found it https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/performance/jd-performance-schools/roll-of-honour/

[Kuro]

21 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

There is absolutely doubt that those guys could have played for those clubs, but anyway, your overall point is nonsense if taken as a reason why we aren't any good at football.

Scots are no different from any other country in that you will have players who aren't as professional and some players who are. For every Boyd and Riordan there is a Darren Fletcher and Andy Robertson - guys who squeezed every last bit out of their potential by working their arse off and being professional.

You think other countries don't have players who weren't as professional as they should have been? George Best? Le Tissier? Any number of the latest 'wonderkids' from around the world who end up nowhere? I, and I'm sure you, could literally list hundreds of non-Scots who wasted their potential.

Or to reverse the point, when we were relatively decent in the 60/70/80s and had world class players, you think they were all professional and led a great lifestyle? Players regularly drank 2-3 times a week back then. So if our lack of professionalism is the reason we are rubbish then we should see an increasing trend in unprofessionalism as we have got worse. What we've seen is the opposite, players are far more professional now yet we are worse.

Laziness and lack of professionalism are undoubtedly reasons why certain individuals don't make it to the level they should, but that is not country specific, those traits exist everywhere, there is no evidence that it exists more in Scotland than anywhere else. Just giving a few Scots as named examples doesn't make it a Scottish problem.

 

We are different, you're simply wrong.

Case in point, Scott Brown.  Tell me which other European countries would have the captain of the biggest club in the country and the national teams captain literally pictured passed out drunk lying on a pavement with kebab on his face three days before a cup final?  Give me one example.  Sweden?  Norway?  Holland?  England?  Spain? Italy?  France? Belgium? Portugal? Cause we did.  He is also a good example of the lack of ambition, a player who clearly should have left Celtic in his mid twenties yet stayed in the comfort zone acting billy bigbaws against Hamilton and St Mirren all his career.

The comparison with the 60s/70s is nonsense as they game has moved on, the difference is we haven't.  Everybody else has but our players haven't to nearly the same extent.

As for Riordan and Boyd, they easily had the talent to play for virtually anybody.  Look at a player like Jesus Navas or Dirk Kuyt, look at the careers they've had compared to those two, through dedication, hard work, professionalism and sacrifice.  Yet talent wise our two are miles better than those two, its not even close.

McFadden another good example, left Everton and was offered a deal by Monaco, but his wife was pregnant and wanted to stay close to family so he signed for Birmingham.  Fucking Birmingham, if that had been an African player or someone from Belgium or France they would have said to their wife this is my career this is what pays the bills and this is my opportunity to get to the highest level I am capable of.  Sacrifice.  Yet McFadden took the easy lazy option,  Its a mindset thing. 

It is country specific, it does exist to a much larger extent in Scotland than anywhere else, you're simply wrong I'm afraid. As well as the people who run our game being idiots and a lot of fans and coaches being similar idiots who use phrases like squarebaw.  These are our problems.

[HibeeJibee]

50 minutes ago, Kuro said:

Case in point, Scott Brown. 

Tell me which other European countries would have the captain of the biggest club in the country and the national teams captain literally pictured passed out drunk lying on a pavement with kebab on his face three days before a cup final?

Give me one example.  Sweden?  Norway?  Holland?  England?  Spain? Italy?  France? Belgium? Portugal? Cause we did.

[ICTChris]

Clearly he was on an evening out with friends when he felt like he had a tight hamstring and needed to stretch it out.  Excellent professionalism

[HibeeJibee]

Don't forget Stuart Armstrong and Gary Mackay-Steven undertaking some impromptu aquatic conditioning in the River Kelvin just before the September internationals 2yrs ago.

Edited September 11, 2019 by HibeeJibee

[Kuro]

5 hours ago, Boaby Fisher said:

I don't think so. England have their best side since 1996 (probably since 1970 tbh) and I don't see many intellectual heavyweights in that team. Their strength is probably athleticism and pace. Maybe Southgate figured out that he couldn't compete with the creativity and flair of the very top teams and built his team on pace and fitness. Not sure if that helps us, as there aren't a lot of those types of players (Sterling, Sancho, Alexander-Arnold etc) in the frame. I do think however, that the other 'home nations' and possibly the Scandinavians are the countries that we need to look at to see what is working or not working. We're never going to be Spain, Italy or Germany, and I think England's relative success under Southgate comes from him realizing the same thing.

I don't think their team is particularly good, their relative success just came from an easy draw.  They beat nobody in the WC you wouldn't expect them to beat and lost to everybody you would expect them to lose to.  Some good players at the top end of the park but not unusually good.

[Kuro]

14 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Clearly he was on an evening out with friends when he felt like he had a tight hamstring and needed to stretch it out.  Excellent professionalism

Celtic and Scotland's captain there, three days before a cup final.  Can you imagine Maldini doing that?

[HibeeJibee]

Returning to Boyd...



...?


Hibs late-2000s...



...?

Edited September 11, 2019 by HibeeJibee

[Kuro]

8 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Don't forget Stuart Armstrong and Gary Mackay-Steven undertaking some impromptu aquatic conditioning in the River Kelvin just before the September internationals 2yrs ago.

They really shouldn't be having 'boozy' nights out at all ever, perhaps one or two right after the end of each season and that's it.  I would be surprised if Messi has been genuinely drunk in his entire life even once, maybe after winning a CL that's it.  Ronaldo is tee-total.

The life of a top level professional footballer is incredibly demanding.  Look at a guy like Dani Alves, from age 18 to age 34 he played something like an average of 56 games per season.  That's more than one game of top level professional football every week for sixteen years. How could he possibly manage that and fit in 'boozy' nights out?  Its just not possible.  The life of a top level player has to be about sacrifice, that's how you get to the top.

Look at the demands being put on Andy Robertson now, won the CL last year, so this year he has the Super Cup, then a league season, league cup, FA Cup, CL, internationals, World Club Championship, then Nations League play-offs, hopefully a European Championships then virtually no break and it starts all over again.  Top players these days have to be incredible athletes and utterly dedicated to their profession, it has to be their whole life.  I don't think there's very many Scottish players at all who have it, you need to be mentally very strong.

[Boaby Fisher]

23 minutes ago, Kuro said:

I don't think their team is particularly good, their relative success just came from an easy draw.  They beat nobody in the WC you wouldn't expect them to beat and lost to everybody you would expect them to lose to.  Some good players at the top end of the park but not unusually good.

I disagree (they beat Spain and Croatia in the Nations League), but putting that to one side, they are significantly better than they were 10 years ago, so they're doing something right.