Scotland v Russia (Match Thread)

[Bing.McCrosby]

2 hours ago, DAVIDB69 said:

 

Strachan was failing regularly with the dads army and usually getting us to fourth in groups.

 

Strachan was good for us in certain aspects, he did have the team playing well.

But he picked the wrong players everytime. Some of he line ups were absolutely rotten and he paid the price for sticking with the same under performing players.

Where as Clarkes team made sense.

He's had 3 games, the people with negative views of the management already need to get a grip.

3 games, Strachan had how many goes at qualifying. Once in an easy group.

He was never going to take us to a major tournament. 

The right man's in charge give him some time.

[shawfield shed boy]

Will we ever learn.. every game. Every tourney..Everyth disected to death

[Jambomo]

What can anyone do when your best players I.e Robertson, have terrible games and keep passing the ball to the opposition? There’s nothing Clarke can do about things like that - on the pitch it’s up to the players not the manager.

 

The good thing is that kind of stuff isn’t terminal, on another day he’ll have a great game, it’s the kind of thing that can be fixed.

 

The first 20-30mins we looked decent, there is the makings of a good team but we need to be playing that was for 90mins instead of 30.

 

[Diamonds are Forever]

8 hours ago, Jambomo said:

What can anyone do when your best players I.e Robertson, have terrible games and keep passing the ball to the opposition? There’s nothing Clarke can do about things like that - on the pitch it’s up to the players not the manager.

 

The good thing is that kind of stuff isn’t terminal, on another day he’ll have a great game, it’s the kind of thing that can be fixed.

 

The first 20-30mins we looked decent, there is the makings of a good team but we need to be playing that was for 90mins instead of 30.

 

 

The reason we looked good for 20 minutes was because we played high up the pitch, pressed Russia and played with intensity. That meant Robertson, Fraser and everyone else were playing I'm areas of the park that suits them. The reason we were rubbish for the rest of the game was because we suddenly sat off, dropped deep and stopped pressing them, meaning Robertson was in his own defensive third where he is least effective, and Fraser and Forrest were having to defend in their own half. That is all the manager's responsibility. Not 'having a go' at Clarke as it will take a few games for him to see things and work out solutions, but those performances can't just be out down to 'one of those things', it was the set-up or mindset of the team after 20 minutes that causes the issue.

I do have a slight worry that Clarke may be the right guy at the wrong time for us. From what I've seen of his teams his success seems to come from playing quite a deep, organised team who are tough to break down, and then perhaps hitting on the break or scoring from set pieces.  With the players we have I can't see that working, our defenders are not good enough to soak up pressure and our best player is an attacking full-back, who when asked to play in a deep lying defence like the other night, is going to offer nothing going forward and be a liability defensively. We also have pace and energy in midfield which, again, leads to playing a more high pressing game further up the pitch. The other night (albeit a small sample size) shows this.

It will be really interesting to see how Clarke deals with this. He is either going to have to mould unsuited players into his preferred style of play, or he himself will have to move away from his tried and tested and play a team more on the front foot which he has no experience of doing. I desperately hope he is a success but I have this underlying feeling that the current set of players and manager are not really suited together. This is where the comparisons to Northern Ireland aren't really relevant, O'Neill has done a good job there obviously but with the players he has available he has no choice but to play the way they play. They have a relatively solid defence and pace going forward so they can play hard to beat and hit on the break, which for a lower ranking nation is the best recipe for success. We don't have the players to do that, we are in a no man's land where we can't slog out 0-0 draws and 1-0 wins, but equally we aren't good enough to go and out play teams, the end result is what we saw the other night.

[pandarilla]

You've got me worried.

A lot of that makes sense.

[Bing.McCrosby]

40 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

The reason we looked good for 20 minutes was because we played high up the pitch, pressed Russia and played with intensity. That meant Robertson, Fraser and everyone else were playing I'm areas of the park that suits them. The reason we were rubbish for the rest of the game was because we suddenly sat off, dropped deep and stopped pressing them, meaning Robertson was in his own defensive third where he is least effective, and Fraser and Forrest were having to defend in their own half. That is all the manager's responsibility. Not 'having a go' at Clarke as it will take a few games for him to see things and work out solutions, but those performances can't just be out down to 'one of those things', it was the set-up or mindset of the team after 20 minutes that causes the issue.

I do have a slight worry that Clarke may be the right guy at the wrong time for us. From what I've seen of his teams his success seems to come from playing quite a deep, organised team who are tough to break down, and then perhaps hitting on the break or scoring from set pieces.  With the players we have I can't see that working, our defenders are not good enough to soak up pressure and our best player is an attacking full-back, who when asked to play in a deep lying defence like the other night, is going to offer nothing going forward and be a liability defensively. We also have pace and energy in midfield which, again, leads to playing a more high pressing game further up the pitch. The other night (albeit a small sample size) shows this.

It will be really interesting to see how Clarke deals with this. He is either going to have to mould unsuited players into his preferred style of play, or he himself will have to move away from his tried and tested and play a team more on the front foot which he has no experience of doing. I desperately hope he is a success but I have this underlying feeling that the current set of players and manager are not really suited together. This is where the comparisons to Northern Ireland aren't really relevant, O'Neill has done a good job there obviously but with the players he has available he has no choice but to play the way they play. They have a relatively solid defence and pace going forward so they can play hard to beat and hit on the break, which for a lower ranking nation is the best recipe for success. We don't have the players to do that, we are in a no man's land where we can't slog out 0-0 draws and 1-0 wins, but equally we aren't good enough to go and out play teams, the end result is what we saw the other night.

It's whether Clarke wanted them to do that or they just crapped it and sat in.

I thought at the time it was Clarkes game plan, my mate was adamant it was down to the players.

From the comments after the game from Clarke and robertson it seems it was the players. 

I'd need to check but there's a quote from Clarke saying along the lines of I don't know why we dropped so deep I'll need to re watch it.

In which case if it was the players doing it themselves why wasn't Clarke on the touchline waving the line up higher?

I don't know what's potentially worse tho, Clarke being overly defensive or the players being gutless?

Sure Clarke will improve them tho

Edited September 8, 2019 by BingMcCrosby

[54_and_counting]

5 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

It's whether Clarke wanted them to do that or they just crapped it and sat in.

I thought at the time it was Clarkes game plan, my mate was adamant it was down to the players.

From the comments after the game from Clarke and robertson it seems it was the players. 

I'd need to check but there's a quote from Clarke saying along the lines of I don't know why we dropped so deep I'll need to re watch it.

In which case if it was the players doing it themselves why wasn't Clarke on the touchline waving the line up higher?

I don't know what's potentially worse tho, Clarke being overly defensive or the players being gutless?

Sure Clarke will improve them tho

Maybe the players dropped deep because Russia, having gone behind, actually changed their game plan as well which negated scotlands

If clarke seen them drop so deep why didn't he change it as you said, imo either scotland don't have the players to change things or clarke doesn't have the ability to do so, either one isnt good

[munro7]

Nah, we stopped pressing and pretty much dropped back to our 18 yard line. It wasn’t anything to do with anything Russia did.

[forameus]

20 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

If clarke seen them drop so deep why didn't he change it as you said, imo either scotland don't have the players to change things or clarke doesn't have the ability to do so, either one isnt good

This for me. Its one of two things, either it was his game plan or it wasn't. If it was, it was a terrible idea, if it wasn't then he either didn't want to or wasn't able to change it. None of those possibilities are partilcularly positive for us. 

It's interesting to see the reaction. While it's madness to call for change after 3 games, the tone is a lot more forgiving with Clarke than if it had been...well,lets face it, any of our previous managers. If he gets us out of this miraculously, or more likely gets us through the playoffs, then no one gives a shit, but if he doesn't then I wonder how strong the questions asked will be. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

7 minutes ago, forameus said:

It's interesting to see the reaction. While it's madness to call for change after 3 games, the tone is a lot more forgiving with Clarke than if it had been...well,lets face it, any of our previous managers.

Don't think that's true at all, Strachan had more than a fair crack of it. And certainly wasn't under any pressure after 3 games.

Mcleish was under pressure from the start, which was fair enough as his appointment was an absolute joke to begin with.

Looking back apart from that I think the managers have been judged on the performances and results. Which I expect will be the case here too.

The other exception is Craig levein. Who put himself under increased pressure by acting like an absolute bell end at every interview and press conference. Plus played a stupid team and formation.

[Marshmallo]

 

On 07/09/2019 at 11:47, ali_91 said:

‘Insert player A is not international class,’ is a complete fallacy. Wales got to the semi finals of a Euros with Robson-Kanu leading the line. 

We have individuals that are more than good enough to have us not sitting in on our own 18 yard line for 80 minutes against Russia. The whole attitude of the country is wrong, absolutely no belief in ourselves. McGinn, McTominay and McGregor are all good players, there’s absolutely no reason they can’t dictate the play at a home game against a side like Russia. Forrest and Fraser are again good players, supported by Andy Robertson, with a big brute of a striker, and yet they hardly saw the ball and I could count on one hand how many crosses we got in the box. 

I genuinely don’t think the players available are the problem, it lies much deeper imo. 

The mentality is all wrong, everyone is looking for an excuse before the games have even kicked off. You had that zoomer rambling on about timezones in Kazakhstan, Aberdeen going to Finland this summer having to answer questions about there being too many hours of daylight, the pathetic Georgia capitulation under Strachan. We shat our pants when we went 1-0 up Friday night, 10 men strung across the defence as though we were playing 1970 Brazil. Roberston at least addressed it in the post-match interview, maybe if they acknowledge it's a problem then it can be corrected.

This is the first I've read this thread since before the game on Friday. As usual it's an absolute pollution. I question how much football folk watch if they're rating Liam Cooper 1/10 for an adequate performance or wanting Stevie Clarke emptied.

[54_and_counting]

4 hours ago, forameus said:

This for me. Its one of two things, either it was his game plan or it wasn't. If it was, it was a terrible idea, if it wasn't then he either didn't want to or wasn't able to change it. None of those possibilities are partilcularly positive for us. 

It's interesting to see the reaction. While it's madness to call for change after 3 games, the tone is a lot more forgiving with Clarke than if it had been...well,lets face it, any of our previous managers. If he gets us out of this miraculously, or more likely gets us through the playoffs, then no one gives a shit, but if he doesn't then I wonder how strong the questions asked will be. 

Given the players available for Scotland at this point in time, clarke is probably the completely wrong appointment given how he likes to set up his teams and play his game, 

Scotlands best players are the attacking ones, they might not be great but they are better than the defence, hell even Robertson is a better player going away from his own goal than towards it

Yet the manager is one whos club football revolved around his team being better at the back than up the park and resorting to stealing results via stifling the opposition, frustrating them and forcing their mistakes