The Big Relegation Thread

[Mark Connolly]

I feel we should be revisiting the "Is Neilson under pressure or just a dick?" question

[Doctor Sanchez]

5 hours ago, Leith Green said:

He is a hopeless manager, was a one trick pony tactically, had no plan B and the football was eye bleeding.

Well I disagree with the premise. I'm not sure if that has ever happened before in the history of the internet.  I'm unsure of the protocol, is it pistols at dawn? 

[Doctor Sanchez]

2 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

I feel we should be revisiting the "Is Neilson under pressure or just a dick?" question

I raised an eyebrow at that one too.  I'd have thought that Hearts fans would be a bit more supportive of him.  Is third in the league not good enough on their first season back up? 

[Leith Green]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Sanchez said:

Well I disagree with the premise. I'm not sure if that has ever happened before in the history of the internet.  I'm unsure of the protocol, is it pistols at dawn? 

No sure who Dawn is but I feel sorry for her.........

[VincentGuerin]

4 hours ago, Doctor Sanchez said:

I raised an eyebrow at that one too.  I'd have thought that Hearts fans would be a bit more supportive of him.  Is third in the league not good enough on their first season back up? 

It's a bit more nuanced than that.

He's obviously doing a decent job. But I don't think many Hearts fans believe that he can improve the team or our prospects any more than he has done.

He's generally good at beating teams we're better than, but sides of a similar level or who are better than us he has real trouble with. He constantly makes the same gameplan mistakes and you'll be hard-pushed to find a Hearts supporter who believes we're likely to win a big game.

I think it's a fair position to take to say he's done a good job for us but we probably need someone else to get the best out of our squad.

I don't have confidence in him being the best option to handle a European campaign, for example. Thanks for getting us there, cheerio now.

Edited February 6, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Billy Jean King]

I'm thinking St Mirren are in the shit big time absolutely diabolical  at home now no one to score goals not that Brophy was prolific in the first place think it's going to be another few weeks again without a win and that includes Kelty in the cup.

Lolz

[Ron Aldo]

It's a bit more nuanced than that.
He's obviously doing a decent job. But I don't think many Hearts fans believe that he can improve the team or our prospects any more than he has done.
He's generally good at beating teams we're better than, but sides of a similar level or who are better than us he has real trouble with. He constantly makes the same gameplan mistakes and you'll be hard-pushed to find a Hearts supporter who believes we're likely to win a big game.
I think it's a fair position to take to say he's done a good job for us but we probably need someone else to get the best out of our squad.
I don't have confidence in him being the best option to handle a European campaign, for example. Thanks for getting us there, cheerio now.

I don't mean this to come across the way it might appear, but with Hearts sitting comfortably in 3rd place what more can their fans realistically expect?

[VincentGuerin]

10 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

10 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

It's a bit more nuanced than that.
He's obviously doing a decent job. But I don't think many Hearts fans believe that he can improve the team or our prospects any more than he has done.
He's generally good at beating teams we're better than, but sides of a similar level or who are better than us he has real trouble with. He constantly makes the same gameplan mistakes and you'll be hard-pushed to find a Hearts supporter who believes we're likely to win a big game.
I think it's a fair position to take to say he's done a good job for us but we probably need someone else to get the best out of our squad.
I don't have confidence in him being the best option to handle a European campaign, for example. Thanks for getting us there, cheerio now.

I don't mean this to come across the way it might appear, but with Hearts sitting comfortably in 3rd place what more can their fans realistically expect?

I understand how it looks.

But there are different ways to be sitting third.

There's not much point in finishing third and then just getting pumped out of Europe early doors. It's meaningless. I don't think many Hearts fans trust Robbie with European games. He's just not very good against anybody half-decent.

Then there's the issue of maybe trying to win something. He got very close against a really poor Celtic team, but remember that that his usual big game gameplan almost had us out of that match before we got into it. The team pulled it out the bag, but he got the game wrong.

If we're happy to win a good number of games against the sides in the bottom 6 and finish third relatively often, then Neilson is fine. I don't think he's shite.

But all football fans like the idea that things might get better and that we might improve a bit. I don't think many Hearts fans believe that'll happen under Neilson. We've got really good recruitment now, and I think most of our success this season has come simply because we've signed good players instead of our normal shite ones. I think a better coach could get more from them.

Edited February 7, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Doctor Sanchez]

4 hours ago, VincentGuerin said:

I understand how it looks...

I guess these things are all about perspective.  Sounds like a moan that you've only won the Lottery, not the Euro-Millions.  

Serious question: Do you think a new manager would allow Hearts to kick on and take it to the next level?  

[VincentGuerin]

7 minutes ago, Doctor Sanchez said:

I guess these things are all about perspective.  Sounds like a moan that you've only won the Lottery, not the Euro-Millions.  

Serious question: Do you think a new manager would allow Hearts to kick on and take it to the next level?  

'Next level' is one of these fuzzy concepts.

I think we'd be more likely to win big games. Finishing third is completely meaningless unless it leads somewhere.

A decent stab at the Conference League or winning something would be good. Otherwise, what's the point?

I don't fancy Neilson to do either of those things. As a club, there's no reason why not.

[craigkillie]

You're not going to get pumped out of Europe early doors. Unless someone outside the top 3 wins the cup, 3rd place gets you group stage football.

[VincentGuerin]

32 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

You're not going to get pumped out of Europe early doors. Unless someone outside the top 3 wins the cup, 3rd place gets you group stage football.

Yes, we've known this for some time.

We can still under-perform our level, even if we parachute into a group. And I think that's what most Hearts fans are bothered about with Neilson.

It's not protest out the back of the stand stuff, but I think most fans are keen for the club to look around and see what else is out there. It's a clear pattern with Neilson.

I'd love him to prove me wrong, but there's a huge body of evidence that this is as good as it gets.

[Coventry Saint]

42 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

You're not going to get pumped out of Europe early doors. Unless someone outside the top 3 wins the cup, 3rd place gets you group stage football.

What if they get drawn against part-timers from the Welsh league? What happens then?

[craigkillie]

What if they get drawn against part-timers from the Welsh league? What happens then?

You'd say well done to the Welsh part-timers for making it as far as the Europa League Playoff round - they must be a very good team.

[PauloPerth]

Yes, we've known this for some time.
We can still under-perform our level, even if we parachute into a group. And I think that's what most Hearts fans are bothered about with Neilson.
It's not protest out the back of the stand stuff, but I think most fans are keen for the club to look around and see what else is out there. It's a clear pattern with Neilson.
I'd love him to prove me wrong, but there's a huge body of evidence that this is as good as it gets.

As good as it gets but still good by Hearts' standards surely? You've finished 3rd once in the past 10 seasons, with two seasons down below in there.

What do you think is a realistically achievable successful season?

[Kyle Reese]

From a neutral point of view, I’d love to see one or both of Aberdeen and/or Hibs to get sucked in to this. “Meaningful games” and all that.

[VincentGuerin]

6 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

As good as it gets but still good by Hearts' standards surely? You've finished 3rd once in the past 10 seasons, with two seasons down below in there.

What do you think is a realistically achievable successful season?

I think Hearts should be looking to eventually win the league.

I don't mean we will win it, but we should be aiming to win it.

Neilson won't win it. But he is a step on the way. He may deliver group stage football and the cash it brings.

I understand people use this kind of thing as 'entitled Hearts fans' etc etc. But it's not that. We have a good squad and our coach doesn't get the best out of them. And he has spent years showing he under-performs in big games.

He's not bad and I'm not dying to see him chased out tomorrow. But we can do better.

[Kyle Reese]

6 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

As good as it gets but still good by Hearts' standards surely? You've finished 3rd once in the past 10 seasons, with two seasons down below in there.

What do you think is a realistically achievable successful season?

It’s been one of our less successful decades, that much is true. It’s also a total outlier in our overall history in Scottish football. It’s funny that you would try and pretend otherwise.

[VincentGuerin]

4 minutes ago, Kyle Reese said:

It’s been one of our less successful decades, that much is true. It’s also a total outlier in our overall history in Scottish football. It’s funny that you would try and pretend otherwise.

It's been a mad decade in lots of ways, as you say. Within Hearts and in Scottish football in general.

It is never some huge achievement for Hearts, Hibs, or Aberdeen to be third in the league. It's going to happen for each of us from time to time. And we've definitely been helped by how shite both of those sides are this season.

It's overly-simplistic to say we should just be happy with what we have because we're third.

Again, I don't think Neilson is dreadful. I just think he doesn't make the best of what we have.

[Stag Nation]

15 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I think Hearts should be looking to eventually win the league.

I don't mean we will win it, but we should be aiming to win it.

Neilson won't win it. But he is a step on the way. He may deliver group stage football and the cash it brings.

I understand people use this kind of thing as 'entitled Hearts fans' etc etc. But it's not that. We have a good squad and our coach doesn't get the best out of them. And he has spent years showing he under-performs in big games.

He's not bad and I'm not dying to see him chased out tomorrow. But we can do better.

Eventually? It's 60-odd years since you last won it, how long do you want?

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Stag Nation