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HendersonDelivers

Jordyn Sheerin Craigroyston

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1 hour ago, G4Mac said:

I don't know your experience in adult football (junior or senior) but in mines (12 years as a player and 4 as a coach) most players, not all, but most will expect to be reasonably compensated for their fuel at the very least.  

I think that's a reasonable expectation. Players will play for more or less, dependant on what they are looking for. A club has to operate within its means absolutely, however, to suggest a player shouldn't ask to be compensated for their travel and time isn't a mainstream viewpoint, particularly at Senior level or junior level. Amateur level is different for the most part.

 

Anyway, I hope Craigroyston figure a way out of the situation and can continue to function. If they can't I would say that it won't be down to a lack of effort on the clubs part. Best of luck to them.

 

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask - ask away - although whether they get it or not is another matter because expectations are often unrealistic, unfortunately.  And this is a result of a cultural legacy going back at least 12 years where players could command good money because the adult game presumably was well supported financially.  This needs to change.

I'm not sure if you have any business experience but this scenario: Player A wants £1000, club X can't afford it so he goes to club Y instead, displacing  player B who now becomes available and joins club A  for a figure that is affordable to them, say £600 -   is an example of the basic law of supply.

For example 18 players became available when Haddington 20s folded, and another 18 will become available if Craigroyston fold: an abundance of supply.  With the greatest of respect to them,  I'd be surprised if many can command a signing on fee or payment of expenses in their next move, wherever it may be.   Clubs tend to run with a squad of 18-20, a finite number of places available, with a pretty much infinite amount of players available to fill them.

I too hope Craigroyston find a way out of the situation, but giving players signing on fees and paying expenses where there is no income to pay for it certainly won't work.

Edited by Che Dail

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It’s a shame for craigroyston. I hope they can pull through this. However basically to play semi professional level. The basics for a successful eos team are having a good quality ground (which costs money) and ability to cover match day expenses for their players. Even if club took a non playing membership for a year (crossgates primrose and harthill did in east region juniors) try resolve the finances and try again. I’d hate to see them hit the wall but sadly this costs money and if they don’t have it there’s not much to be done. I hope they receive donations or sponsors to keep them running but it’s looking bleak.

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9 hours ago, Che Dail said:

It might sound fair but it is not a reasonable expectation, because many clubs simply cannot afford it.  As pointed out by gaz5 it is not employment / place of work - at the end of the day it is not professional football.

If a player travels 10 miles to and from training twice a week, and roughly the same for games, that would equate to around £27 a week expenses = £1080.  That's a £20k budget on top of all the other running costs.  If you're drawing in less than 100 supporters a week and don't have several sponsors or donors, that money does not exist.  

What gaz also points out is that it must be out of pocket [reasonably] incurred expenses, i.e. past tense - so the player (or volunteer worker) technically should render a claim for expenses. 

But you will know that offers are made to players at the start of the season based on their perceived ability and value, not on the distance they travel to and from training.  'I know you only live round the corner but we'll give you £80 a week and if anybody asks just say you have to drive to Berwick for bibs and balls".  

I can see how it can be justified fairly - clubs aren't obliged to pay expenses to every player - so there could be a different offer to each one, but here's obviously a point where it becomes wages.

 

I heard a tale of an amateur registered player who once played Junior and claimed expenses for a 2 hr round trip - but lived a wind assisted goal kick away.

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18 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

I heard a tale of an amateur registered player who once played Junior and claimed expenses for a 2 hr round trip - but lived a wind assisted goal kick away.

Cheating.... more or less.

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6 minutes ago, Che Dail said:

Cheating.... more or less.

Things have changed now but in the old days (pre 2013!) an amateur couldn't be retained so in some ways he was only playing the system at its own game. Were it not for retention, he could have signed professional terms and got the same money.

 

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lots of talk at the arniston  leith game yesterday about craigy merging with there local amateur team laurie thistle to keep going leith have offered to take over to as for the game it was tasty with the big arni boy sent of for throwing a dig leith boy looked handbags but of to good win for leith very good team

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Good luck to them. There were those rumours around Leith and Craigroyston a year ago. Going by the fact they are seeing out the season it's not like they want to be out of the game and are exploring all the avenues available to them.

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i have heard craigy players have been told its a done deal with leith moving to st marks and craigy 100% folding next season something to do with sponsors and money craigy committee guys have agreed to let leith have it rather than the other options given by 2 ams teams 

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There were rumours of them 'merging' with Leith for this season. Leith of course lack a ground while Meadowbank is being rebuilt and have been lodging at Peffermill. Warriston is directly west of Leith itself - as close as Lochend and far closer than Craigmillar - and the Water of Leith actually flows along the south side of St Mark's Park.

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On 30/11/2019 at 23:45, G4Mac said:

All clubs renumerate players in many ways, expenses, wages, bonus payments, fuel cards, signing on fees, fitting skirting boards, plastering jobs, fitting a shelf, free beer or actual fully paid full time jobs......

It just depends on what you offer as a club and what a players sees as acceptable I guess.

None of that at Heriot Watt university or Stirling university (EOS)  Credit has to go to the Heriot watt manager, no budget, constant unavailability of players. Looking from afar, I have always admired the work done, they consistently challenge, play some attractive football  and are very competitive.

I also noticed in the past two seasons, two of their players have signed professional terms ( East fife and Montrose) 

Last season in a league with Linlithgow, Broxburn, Camelon, Blackburn, am sure they finished above a few teams with vast budget. My point is, great to have a budget, but an understanding of the game, motivation and obviously good coaching makes a marginal difference.

Good luck to Craigroyston, hope they can see out rest of the season

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55 minutes ago, skynews said:

None of that at Heriot Watt university or Stirling university (EOS)  Credit has to go to the Heriot watt manager, no budget, constant unavailability of players. Looking from afar, I have always admired the work done, they consistently challenge, play some attractive football  and are very competitive.

I also noticed in the past two seasons, two of their players have signed professional terms ( East fife and Montrose) 

Last season in a league with Linlithgow, Broxburn, Camelon, Blackburn, am sure they finished above a few teams with vast budget. My point is, great to have a budget, but an understanding of the game, motivation and obviously good coaching makes a marginal difference.

Good luck to Craigroyston, hope they can see out rest of the season

cos they also have a big number of players to pick from they will never struggle 

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2 hours ago, skynews said:

None of that at Heriot Watt university or Stirling university (EOS)  Credit has to go to the Heriot watt manager, no budget, constant unavailability of players. Looking from afar, I have always admired the work done, they consistently challenge, play some attractive football  and are very competitive.

I also noticed in the past two seasons, two of their players have signed professional terms ( East fife and Montrose) 

Last season in a league with Linlithgow, Broxburn, Camelon, Blackburn, am sure they finished above a few teams with vast budget. My point is, great to have a budget, but an understanding of the game, motivation and obviously good coaching makes a marginal difference.

Good luck to Craigroyston, hope they can see out rest of the season

Never seen "Blackburn" and "vast budget" mentioned in the same sentence before 🤣

See their game has been called off due to lack of players, will they last till the end of the season?

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39 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Never seen "Blackburn" and "vast budget" mentioned in the same sentence before 🤣

See their game has been called off due to lack of players, will they last till the end of the season?

I reckon they will. This is probably the hardest weekend of the season to get players for - couple that with playing Tynecastle who seem unstoppable and it’s not impossible to see why they have a lack of players today. 

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I just noticed their tweets from the 27th. Doesn't look good if on the day they're promoting the game and 6+ hours later they're doing a shout out for players. The committee's obviously trying to keep it going, but it looks like it will be a struggle to keep a squad together knowing that its ending and facing defeat most weeks.

 

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On ‎19‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 14:53, Thekeeper said:

i have heard craigy players have been told its a done deal with leith moving to st marks and craigy 100% folding next season something to do with sponsors and money craigy committee guys have agreed to let leith have it rather than the other options given by 2 ams teams 

Leith Athletic taking over the ground would make absolute sense if true, much closer to "home" and with some investment it could be upgraded over time to maybe get to Licence standard.  I suppose securing it from vandalism would be the first priority.

Shame to see Craigroyston disappearing, I wonder if some of their committee will carry on in the game helping out Leith?

Edited by Burnie_man

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On 28/12/2019 at 08:11, Thekeeper said:

cos they also have a big number of players to pick from they will never struggle 

Usual response to when students team do well. Heriot watt are no even a football uni, also having " big number to pick from" does not mean those players are big enough. Apart from their 1st and 20s, am sure every other team are recreational.

Give them some credit, they play gid football and punch way above their weight

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After being unable to raise a team between Christmas and New Year then going down 11-0 to Leith last weekend Craigroyston got back on track today, with a by no means discreditable 4-1 defeat to LTHV.

They now have 14 league games left... 7 home (v Burntisland, Dunipace, Ormiston, Preston, Stirling Uni EOS, Tweedmouth and Tynecastle) - and 7 away (at Haddington, Kinnoull, Peebles, Coldstream, Easthouses, Edinburgh Utd and Hawick)... plus League Cup tie at Haddington and King Cup tie at Dunipace/Coldstream.

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it looks like craigroyston  have been saved and have found people to take over in may great news and good chance for all the guys at amateur team laurieston thistle to move up 

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it looks like craigroyston  have been saved and have found people to take over in may great news and good chance for all the guys at amateur team laurieston thistle to move up 

Is this official ?

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