snowball Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, Hertz1874 said: Played the last couple games for them. Was very good against Oakley especially when down to 9 men. I'd probably go as far as saying he's better than Ali Adams... Try Glenrothes you played against Oakley! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertz1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 hours ago, snowball said: Try Glenrothes you played against Oakley! Your right he did play against glenrothes, that's right my mistake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) Sad news for Craigie... unless it can act as a rallying-call to sufficient new help over the next 6 months. They've always faced issues with being in the city - lacking a firm surrounding community for help, fans and sponsors. Their crowds were about the lowest in the whole league last season with only games v Broxburn, Camelon and Linlithgow getting above 40s (and several in 20s or 30s). Over recent years there seems to have been a frequent turnover of managers, the loss of some committee to death and personal circumstance IIRC, and the shocking and no doubt demotivating regular vandalism of the ground. Last season saw talk of a merger with Leith. It's one of these strange paradoxes that clubs like Craigroyston, Edinburgh Utd, Heriot-Watt Uni, Leith and LTHV are in the biggest population centre yet generate the least support. St Mark's Park may not boast particularly fancy facilities - with the dressing rooms at some distance plus no cover - but its surface is among the best going, and at one time was regularly used for end-of-season finals. I've always found Craigroyston a particularly modest, unassuming and dignified club; and I think this is summed-up by their desire to play on, finish the season and end matters decently. In other circumstances a team might have wound-up their affairs now or at Christmas. Edited November 28, 2019 by HibeeJibee 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Feel for Jordyn. He has been so enthusiastic since joining. Been getting good turnouts at training and at games despite our results. If we do fold hope he gets a good job somewhere 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/craigroyston-fc-brink-east-scotland-club-set-be-closed-down-over-financial-constraints-1327785 Craigroyston FC on the brink as East of Scotland club set to be closed down over financial constraints East of Scotland side faces closure over spiralling costs of playing football in Capital A popular city football club closing for good after more than 40 years has blamed the spiralling costs of playing amateur football in the Capital for forcing it to the wall. Craigroyston Football Club, based at St Mark's Park in the Warriston area of the city, will close down at the end of the current season after club chiefs agreed that running costs were no longer manageable. Pitch maintenance, a loss of sponsorship money and most importantly the cost of training have been cited as the main reasons behind the club’s difficult decision. The committee published an emotional message on their Twitter page which said: “It is with a heavy heart that the committee have reluctantly agreed to close the club down at the end of this season. This is due totally to the running costs of the club. The falling income and rising costs are not sustainable to the running of the club. "This decision was not taken lightly. We'd like to say a huge thank you to Jordyn [Sheerin, manager] and the players for agreeing to continue to fulfil our remaining fixtures." The club, founded in 1976 by former Eyemouth United manager Rab Melrose, has twice won the East of Scotland First Division, and in the early 1990s won the Alex Jack Cup and the King Cup. However, they currently sit bottom of the table with no wins from 16 games and just two points. Craigroyston have also been targeted twice in the last 12 months by vandals, with yobs damaging the dugouts in February and again in September, and leaving smashed glass bottles on the playing surface in the latter incident. The news comes off the back of the recent ‘Sporting Chance’ campaign run by the Edinburgh Evening News, aimed at ensuring accessibility to grassroots sport is a reality for all Capital residents. 'Heartbreaking' decision Bob Currie, 67, Craigroyston committee member for almost 15 years, said: “This is a heartbreaking decision to have to make. We have had some members on the committee for over 40 years who have dedicated a part of their life to the club. “The cost of training twice a week is costing around £600 a month which is just not manageable. Our sponsorship money has fallen year-on-year as small businesses who have backed us in the past also struggle with rising costs. It also costs us around £3,500 a season to be able to keep on top of the pitch and ensure that it is playable. “We will not be the last club to fold due to rising costs and at this time you question where the backing from government, local authority and the SFA is to be found.” Goalkeeper Stuart Burnside, who spent four years with the club over two spells and captained the side last term, added: "It's really, really sad to hear that it's come to this for Craigroyston. "I thoroughly enjoyed both my spells at the club and had great success winning the league in my first season. "There are a lot of good people at the club who work tirelessly to keep it going, and it's them I feel for the most. "Hopefully something can be done to save the club." The team consists of mostly working-class players and the recent news raises a point that is often touted by the Observatory for Sport in Scotland (OSS), about a trend emerging where those in deprived areas struggle to access grassroots sport. The East of Scotland FA issued a statement reading: "Extremely sorry to hear this news. If it is the end of the road for Craigroyston it will be a sad loss to our football environment - a much-admired club, as reflected in the comments." Community sport model in Scotland is 'broken' David Ferguson, OSS executive director, said: “We heard at the Summit from Glasgow Life’s director of sport and events, Billy Garrett, that the model of community sport and leisure facility management and delivery in Scotland is broken. “Other leisure trust chiefs told us they will definitely be closing facilities in 2020 because they have no money left to run them, and charges are already too high, and one told me he fears his trust – a major charitable company with millions of pounds in turnover and managing major Scottish assets – and others, will be bankrupt entirely in the next two-three years.” An Edinburgh Leisure spokesperson said: ‘It’s no secret that the council has significant funding challenges and they are responsible for setting the cost of hiring pitches in the school estate. “No-one likes to see any club fold and Edinburgh Leisure’s vision is to continue to deliver on the ambition to inspire everyone in Edinburgh to be active, to be healthy and to enjoy moving. “We will continue to strive to improve our performance and to protect and develop services for our customers, the community and the city.” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 50 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/craigroyston-fc-brink-east-scotland-club-set-be-closed-down-over-financial-constraints-1327785 Might be to late for Craigie, but hopefully might stop others going same way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormi Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 52 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/craigroyston-fc-brink-east-scotland-club-set-be-closed-down-over-financial-constraints-1327785 Great article from the EEN (Not often I can say that) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 17 hours ago, HibeeJibee said: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/craigroyston-fc-brink-east-scotland-club-set-be-closed-down-over-financial-constraints-1327785 Could they pair up with Spartans on training and facilities? Fixtures could be managed between the 2 pitches there. Train once a week @£45 for a 7s pitch = £180 a month; and £110 fee per match would be a lot less than £3500 a season they currently pay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Che Dail said: Could they pair up with Spartans on training and facilities? Fixtures could be managed between the 2 pitches there. Train once a week @£45 for a 7s pitch = £180 a month; and £110 fee per match would be a lot less than £3500 a season they currently pay. Barely cover costs with crowd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, snowball said: Barely cover costs with crowd Aye but currently paying £600 a month training and £3500pa for the pitch? What rarely gets mentioned is the expectation from players at this level of football in terms of their expenses / pay - some clubs ask the boys to pay to play, even just a fiver a week is fair, 18x£20 = £360 a month would take a fair bit off the burden. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Che Dail said: Aye but currently paying £600 a month training and £3500pa for the pitch? What rarely gets mentioned is the expectation from players at this level of football in terms of their expenses / pay - some clubs ask the boys to pay to play, even just a fiver a week is fair, 18x£20 = £360 a month would take a fair bit off the burden. And I think I'm right in saying that if, like Edinburgh City, a fixed term lease could be arranged for a ground share at Aislie Park (or Christie Gillies?), the club would be in a position to apply for and acquire an SFA club Licence. There's about £10k a year for you - and Scottish Cup participation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 And I think I'm right in saying that if, like Edinburgh City, a fixed term lease could be arranged for a ground share at Aislie Park (or Christie Gillies?), the club would be in a position to apply for and acquire an SFA club Licence. There's about £10k a year for you - and Scottish Cup participation.Given Edinburgh City already share Ainslie Park I'm not sure that's an option. It might sound harsh, but perhaps there comes a time when it's best to call it a day. If the club don't have a fan base, don't represent a community, and struggle to cover costs, what is the point of struggling on. It's hard work for the committee to try and stay afloat. Sad, but sometimes you just have to accept reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Given Edinburgh City already share Ainslie Park I'm not sure that's an option. It might sound harsh, but perhaps there comes a time when it's best to call it a day. If the club don't have a fan base, don't represent a community, and struggle to cover costs, what is the point of struggling on. It's hard work for the committee to try and stay afloat. Sad, but sometimes you just have to accept reality. They've got 2 full size astros - in theory you could get 4 senior teams ground sharing. But what's to say you couldn't have Craigroyston kicking off at midday, and Spartans kicking off at 3pm? It's scheduling the Calendar. There are thriving clubs in the Lowland League with no fan base, including 2 that currently ground-share with senior clubs (with the greatest of respect to BSC and Caledonia Braves / Edusport, they dinny). And there are plenty clubs in the EoS / Juniors that have hardly any supporters. But the point you're making is that ultimately it is about people - if there's not enough committee or volunteers, or the local will to keep the club going, then perhaps there is little reason to continue. However, the default position by some is to blame the Local Authority or the SFA for lack of investment, which is not fair or correct in my opinion. Going back to Spartans: 2 miles up the road from St Marks, and able to raise £200k at their fundraising dinners... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 They've got 2 full size astros - in theory you could get 4 senior teams ground sharing. But what's to say you couldn't have Craigroyston kicking off at midday, and Spartans kicking off at 3pm? It's scheduling the Calendar. There are thriving clubs in the Lowland League with no fan base, including 2 that currently ground-share with senior clubs (with the greatest of respect to BSC and Caledonia Braves / Edusport, they dinny). And there are plenty clubs in the EoS / Juniors that have hardly any supporters. But the point you're making is that ultimately it is about people - if there's not enough committee or volunteers, or the local will to keep the club going, then perhaps there is little reason to continue. However, the default position by some is to blame the Local Authority or the SFA for lack of investment, which is not fair or correct in my opinion. Going back to Spartans: 2 miles up the road from St Marks, and able to raise £200k at their fundraising dinners... That back pitch isn't EoS compliant and would need upgrading, which defeats the point. My understanding is Ainslie Park is already well used so hires could be difficult.Charges for sport facilities are of course the root cause, but not an easy problem to fix. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) Would a ground-share with CSS be out of the question? Considering that’s just round the corner from where it all began for them and where they take their name from... Edited November 30, 2019 by Spyro 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 50 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: That back pitch isn't EoS compliant and would need upgrading, which defeats the point. My understanding is Ainslie Park is already well used so hires could be difficult. Charges for sport facilities are of course the root cause, but not an easy problem to fix. I'm not sure what would need to be done to make it EoS compliant - St Marks probably isn't compliant now, and I don't think the community pitch is any worse than the astro at Meadowbank where Leith Athletic played, I could be wrong. But that's beside the point - If Craigroyston were to take a midday slot at Ainslie Park, on the stadium pitch, it would no doubt displace current bookings. But then, how many of the current lets need to be on a full-size and enclosed SFA Licence accredited pitch? If it is kids football they could of course pick up the void created at St Marks - and all of a sudden you have much more activity on the grass pitch, with kids playing fun 4s / 5-a sides / 7-a sides instead of at Ainslie Park. And instead of Council (tax payers) money subsidising that ground, it is supported by the very viable and thriving community football academy AND effectively the income from SFA licencing money which would be paid to Craigroyston in December. Also opens up a potential link-up / loose relationship with Spartans for u19 / u20s or ams players... a ready-made player pathway for lads not quite ready for LL football at Spartans. The other alternative that I mentioned before is for them to link up with Civil Service Strollers - (a 2 minute walk from Craigroyston High School so there's a North Edinburgh connection) - and you have the Marine Drive world of football for training next door... Tynecastle and LTHV shared previously before Saughton met licensing criteria; now Tynecastle share with Edinburgh Rugby. They have a full time groundsman, but again, the Licence income could go part towards that cost. Regarding charge for sport facilities, I'm just not sure I agree that is the root cause. If you roll up at the Corn Exchange with your pals for a game, you fully expect to pay a fiver or six quid to play - and those facilities are stowed out every night. For some reason though, when players are attached to an amateur or EoS club, the expectancy is that all that will be paid for by somebody else. That culture probably needs to change, because the money just isn't in the game at this level anymore to sustain it - and this has nothing to do with the Local Authorities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Craigroyston aside, on the pay/expenses front, the EoS league isn't an amateur one. Any club who has any interest in progressing in it can't be asking players to pay subs themselves and I doubt there are (m)any who do.There doesn't need to be a culture shift in EoS, there's already amateur league's where teams who want to follow that operating model can ply their trade.I think what your are talking about is more clubs playing at an appropriate level for the resources that they have available to them.Back to Craigroyston, those do seem to be extraordinary running costs and I hope they can get something sorted out one way or another, good guys that run the club from our experience earlier in the season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, gaz5 said: Craigroyston aside, on the pay/expenses front, the EoS league isn't an amateur one. Any club who has any interest in progressing in it can't be asking players to pay subs themselves and I doubt there are (m)any who do. There doesn't need to be a culture shift in EoS, there's already amateur league's where teams who want to follow that operating model can ply their trade. I think what your are talking about is more clubs playing at an appropriate level for the resources that they have available to them. Back to Craigroyston, those do seem to be extraordinary running costs and I hope they can get something sorted out one way or another, good guys that run the club from our experience earlier in the season. Costs include monthly lease of park etc, maintenance of machinery. Also had 2 lots of vandalism to repair and pay for which you cant budget for Edited November 30, 2019 by snowball 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Che Dail said: I'm not sure what would need to be done to make it EoS compliant - St Marks probably isn't compliant now, and I don't think the community pitch is any worse than the astro at Meadowbank where Leith Athletic played, I could be wrong. But that's beside the point - If Craigroyston were to take a midday slot at Ainslie Park, on the stadium pitch, it would no doubt displace current bookings. But then, how many of the current lets need to be on a full-size and enclosed SFA Licence accredited pitch? If it is kids football they could of course pick up the void created at St Marks - and all of a sudden you have much more activity on the grass pitch, with kids playing fun 4s / 5-a sides / 7-a sides instead of at Ainslie Park. And instead of Council (tax payers) money subsidising that ground, it is supported by the very viable and thriving community football academy AND effectively the income from SFA licencing money which would be paid to Craigroyston in December. Also opens up a potential link-up / loose relationship with Spartans for u19 / u20s or ams players... a ready-made player pathway for lads not quite ready for LL football at Spartans. The other alternative that I mentioned before is for them to link up with Civil Service Strollers - (a 2 minute walk from Craigroyston High School so there's a North Edinburgh connection) - and you have the Marine Drive world of football for training next door... Tynecastle and LTHV shared previously before Saughton met licensing criteria; now Tynecastle share with Edinburgh Rugby. They have a full time groundsman, but again, the Licence income could go part towards that cost. Regarding charge for sport facilities, I'm just not sure I agree that is the root cause. If you roll up at the Corn Exchange with your pals for a game, you fully expect to pay a fiver or six quid to play - and those facilities are stowed out every night. For some reason though, when players are attached to an amateur or EoS club, the expectancy is that all that will be paid for by somebody else. That culture probably needs to change, because the money just isn't in the game at this level anymore to sustain it - and this has nothing to do with the Local Authorities. I'm not sure there's many clubs who expect players to pay subs to play at EoS level, and expect to go anywhere. It may work if all you want to do is survive, but any decent player would be enticed away fairly easily. That said, the back pitch at Ainslie would need a rail around the pitch (not cheap), and I doubt there is space down the touchlines without moving the fence. Talking of fence, it would also need to be screened off so you just can't stand outside and watch the game through it. Dugouts also needed. St.Marks meets these requirements. Edited November 30, 2019 by Burnie_man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Che Dail Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, gaz5 said: Craigroyston aside, on the pay/expenses front, the EoS league isn't an amateur one. Any club who has any interest in progressing in it can't be asking players to pay subs themselves and I doubt there are (m)any who do. There doesn't need to be a culture shift in EoS, there's already amateur league's where teams who want to follow that operating model can ply their trade. I think what your are talking about is more clubs playing at an appropriate level for the resources that they have available to them. Back to Craigroyston, those do seem to be extraordinary running costs and I hope they can get something sorted out one way or another, good guys that run the club from our experience earlier in the season. I get your point, and I agree entirely about clubs paying (or not) at a sustainable level... however, the Mission Statement for The East of Scotland Football League is "To Develop, Foster, Co-Ordinate and Sustain Association Football at Club and League level throughout Edinburgh, the Lothians, the Borders, Fife and Stirlingshire". LEAGUE OBJECTIVE nr5. To provide opportunities for clubs, officials & supporters to participate in football for the benefit of the whole community. Nothing in there about how clubs should generate income, or if their playing squad status should be amateur or professional. I suspect the majority of players in the EoS Conferences will be amateur or non-contract status. I would say, in reality, for many clubs it is actually amateur football, but with better facilities and a more professional organisational structure. What you're talking about might be aspirational for the league, but we can't expect clubs to go amateur and leave the assoc if they need players to pay subs in order to survive. What will those 18-20 players do if the club folds? Probably go ams and pay subs anyway, while giving up the opportunity to play on decent parks and against good players every week. As an extreme example, take Caledonia Braves in the Lowland League... I think their French players on the Edusport programme chip in about £17k a year! Just a different model, but one that evidently works. Another is Queen's Park who (until recently?) were an amateur club. Edited November 30, 2019 by Che Dail 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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