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Highland Pyramid


Burnie_man

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On 31/01/2020 at 01:41, ArabAuslander said:

As people have mentioned sensible thing to do is to have two (or three) Tier 6 HL Feeders

Opt A: NCL, North Super, Tayside Super

Opt B: NCL + Nairn and a New Superduper NE League

If it's between a Tayside league feeding in the HFL or a new Tayside/north league, I'd much prefer the latter. Tayside is too small an area for a separate feeder imo, I wouldn't mind some trips to the Aberdeen area, a bit of variety is good.

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2 hours ago, Marten said:

If it's between a Tayside league feeding in the HFL or a new Tayside/north league, I'd much prefer the latter. Tayside is too small an area for a separate feeder imo, I wouldn't mind some trips to the Aberdeen area, a bit of variety is good.

Aye I'd prefer that personally, but think the former is a bodge job that could be implemented for next season, with a view to move towards two feeders (if the clubs want that) for Season 21/22.

The only bad news so far is that the Tayside clubs haven't seemed to be involved in any discussions regarding a Tier 6 feeder. (Maybe you could use your influence with the Thomson Park Committee ;))

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  • 4 weeks later...

Posted this elsewhere..............

The HL could look at it practically, restrict the HL to 16 clubs and start a HL2 under their control [12-16 clubs initially] and invite all clubs north of the line to apply to it.  It wouldn't need them to be licenced and if a number of Tayside Superleague clubs applied, it would perhaps alleviate their (largely unfounded) travel concerns as there would be a fair few local Tayside/Angus games.  Two up/down. 

The NRJFA, Tayside Juniors and NCL could then feed into HL2, it's less of a step to make than straight into the HL, and a softer landing for current HL clubs.

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Are there enough clubs that would want to go in a league that covers the full Highland league area though? Wouldn't those leagues feeding directly into HL1 be better? With them at tier six?

Sure it's an option but is it a more attractive option for enough for a HL2? If you wanted those leagues under the umbrella of the Highland League would a HL North West and a HL South East be better? Of course the East Juniors North of the Tay are a potential problem but you could have NL North West, HL East and HL South feeding in HL1?

Anyway, I know others, including most probably yourself have thought of/suggested this.

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On 26/02/2020 at 14:34, stulch said:

Are there enough clubs that would want to go in a league that covers the full Highland league area though? Wouldn't those leagues feeding directly into HL1 be better? With them at tier six?

As I said, if a HL2 attracted the best of the Tayside Juniors and North Superleague clubs, then you're looking at a league that is focused on the Dundee to Aberdeen corridor, with a handful outside of that (yes, maybe a couple of long road trips per season).

HL - HL2 - NRJFA/NCL/Tayside Juniors

Softer landing for relegated HL clubs, and a halfway house from Juniors to tier 5 licenced.

NCL is a bit like the SoS, in that it's clubs are mostly amateur on basic grounds, not sure it's a good idea trying to promote them into tier 5.   Maybe regionalising HL2 is also an option, but the region covering NCL/Inverness/Moray would be a fairly weak one.

Edited by Burnie_man
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1 minute ago, Marten said:

A HL2 won't work, the NCL and a merged North/Tayside superleague would be the best way forward imo. Having potential journeys like Carnoustie to Orkney in tier 6 is madness imo.

As I said, I dont think these teams would be of a standing to get to HL2 anyway.  Orkney direct into tier 5 would be even madder!

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5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

As I said, I dont think these teams would be of a standing to get to HL2 anyway.  Orkney direct into tier 5 would be even madder!

If they get licensed, win the NCL and win the play-off, it's fair enough that they get into tier 5.

I get your comparison to the SoSFL, but that league is representing an area that's just too small to be at tier 6. The NCL represents a massive area, albeit sparsely populated. It's not ideal, but with Scotland's geography in mind, I think we need the NCL at tier 6. next to an Aberdeen/Dundee league.

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Just now, FairWeatherFan said:

At the minute you have Orkney playing two games on the same day to help wrap up a 16 game league season. 

I'm not entirely sure they'd be signing up for the Highland League or HL2.

Demonstrates why the NCL shouldn't be anywhere near tier 6.    If people are talking about the SoS being at a level that is perhaps a bit too high given the clubs in membership [and it's a fair point], then that equally applies to NCL which is, let's be honest, a complete backwater.

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3 minutes ago, Marten said:

If they get licensed, win the NCL and win the play-off, it's fair enough that they get into tier 5.

I get your comparison to the SoSFL, but that league is representing an area that's just too small to be at tier 6. The NCL represents a massive area, albeit sparsely populated. It's not ideal, but with Scotland's geography in mind, I think we need the NCL at tier 6. next to an Aberdeen/Dundee league.

They'd be completely out of their depth at tier 6, let alone 5.  In reality, they really should feed into the bottom level of the NRJFA.

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19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

They'd be completely out of their depth at tier 6, let alone 5.  In reality, they really should feed into the bottom level of the NRJFA.

Talks seem to be going well about a Highland Pyramid. Do you think there'd be any chance of the NRJFA continuing with the talks if it means they'd have to accept the likes of Orkney, Thurso etc. if these clubs get promoted into the NRJFA? Due to the distance, there is no chance of that happening. Your arguments for the LL area are fair enough, but the HL area is a completely different kettle of fish due to geography. There is simply not going to be a Highland Pyramid without a separate tier 6 league for the remote areas currently covered by the NCL. And I can't blame the NRJFA for not wanting those clubs in their set-up. 

The only realistic chance of promotion/relegation between the HL and tier 6 is if both the NCL and NRJFA are at tier 6, it's not going to happen otherwise. It might not be ideal, but it's better than not having a pyramid.

Edited by Marten
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11 minutes ago, Marten said:

Talks seem to be going well about a Highland Pyramid. Do you think there'd be any chance of the NRJFA continuing with the talks if it means they'd have to accept the likes of Orkney, Thurso etc. if these clubs get promoted into the NRJFA? Due to the distance, there is no chance of that happening. Your arguments for the LL area are fair enough, but the HL area is a completely different kettle of fish due to geography. There is simply not going to be a Highland Pyramid without a separate tier 6 league for the remote areas currently covering by the NCL. And I can't blame the NRJFA for not wanting those clubs in their set-up. 

The only realistic chance of promotion/relegation between the HL and tier 6 is if both the NCL and NRJFA are at tier 6, it's not going to happen otherwise. It might not be ideal, but it's better than not having a pyramid.

You need to deal with the Pyramid with a degree of practicality, strong leagues at the top end, weaker leagues further down. Having a very weak league which barely anyone in the wider game has heard of, and doesn't even have Scottish Cup access for it's champion club, feeding into a tier 5 league just because of geography isn't really a solution.

Plus, we don't actually have any information at all over what is going on, nor whether the NRJFA would or would not accept the NCL as a feeder. All we're doing is hypothesising. In the same regard, I'm sure the HL don't fancy Orkney or Thurso as members either, they're a very "traditional" organisation and having them in the tier below with a direct chance of promotion would probably give them palpitations

Let's see what happens, something is better than nothing. Personally I think a HL2 would help smooth things out and bring Tayside on board, whilst keeping NCL at a more realistic level.

The Tayside question remains unanswered.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Burnie_man
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7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

You need to deal with the Pyramid with a degree of practicality, strong leagues at the top end, weaker leagues further down. Having a very weak league which barely anyone in the wider game has heard of, and doesn't even have Scottish Cup access for it's champion club, feeding into a tier 5 league just because of geography isn't really a solution.

Plus, we don't actually have any information at all over what is going on, nor whether the NRJFA would or would not accept the NCL as a feeder. All we're doing is hypothesising. In the same regard, I'm sure the HL don't fancy Orkney or Thurso as members either, they're a very "traditional" organisation and having them in the tier below with a direct chance of promotion would probably give them palpitations

Let's see what happens, something is better than nothing, Personally I think a HL2 would help smooth things out and bring Tayside on board, whilst keeping NCL at a more realistic level.

I can absolutely guarantee you that's not going to be accepted. The chances of that happening are smaller than the chances of Blackburn United returning to the ERJFA.

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Just now, Marten said:

I can absolutely guarantee you that's not going to be accepted. The chances of that happening are smaller than the chances of Blackburn United returning to the ERJFA.

What makes you so sure, are Tayside talking to the NRJFA?

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2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

What makes you so sure, are Tayside talking to the NRJFA?

I have heard enough at games about the NRJFA (including when going to games between Tayside & ERJFA clubs). I'm not entirely sure what stage the negotiations are at, but I know for sure that the NRJFA don't want to cover the area covered by the NCL in any way.

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I have heard enough at games about the NRJFA (including when going to games between Tayside & ERJFA clubs). I'm not entirely sure what stage the negotiations are at, but I know for sure that the NRJFA don't want to cover the area covered by the NCL in any way.
Not a done deal then
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1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

Demonstrates why the NCL shouldn't be anywhere near tier 6.    If people are talking about the SoS being at a level that is perhaps a bit too high given the clubs in membership [and it's a fair point], then that equally applies to NCL which is, let's be honest, a complete backwater.

Right now the NCL is only 9 clubs with a 16 game season. The NRJFA are still juniors and Tayside aren't involved in discussions and are also still junior.

The Highland League still technically has the cap of 20 clubs before having to consider relegating existing members into that Hodge podge. Or exceeding 20 and having to worry about splitting into divisions.

A HL2 or NOSFL of whoever applies is probably the easiest solution to tier 6. Just as a WOSFL is breaking existing ties in the West of Scotland.

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Don't see why there needs to be a tier 6 in the North, just for the sake of matching the South where you have lots of interested and capable clubs. The NCL and North Juniors are amateur pub teams in all but name, asides from maybe Banks o Dee who refused an invitation to the HL last season. It's the equivalent of having about tier 10 in the South, what's the point? If clubs are willing, and prepared and able to invest in floodlights etc, then fair enough, I'd love to see the likes of Orkney in the HL, and demotion/promotion. It's not worth the price of turning the HL into 2x10 though, and I don't see where the 2x16 teams would come from.

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There needs to be a way for ambitious clubs in the North to progress (and likewise for poorly performing clubs to fall). However, pragmatically there'll never be a way to have a beautiful symmetrical pyramid so beloved of the pyramidistas in Scotland and there doesn't need to be. The pyramid will never be as deep in the North as the South.

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