Jump to content

Highland Pyramid


Burnie_man

Recommended Posts

On 01/08/2020 at 12:23, Whitburn Vale said:

That's why I used the word "regularly".....

Well aware they have to travel on ERJFA cup business but after speaking to the Harthill committee man yesterday he made it clear to me that "travelling" is their no.1 issue with joining the EOS.

So if Eyemouth is a problem right now to him,then Angus certainly would be....

How anyone can back Angus sides in particular playing in the LL area is beyond me and I'm not the only one on here that thinks that way !!

I travel regularly to HL games sometimes as a neutral and sometimes to see Deveronvale,Angus to many people down here is undoubtedly in the north.

What Brechin did in trying to coerce the SPFL into barring LL sides from the Challenge cup and League cup just to try and force the LL's hands into shifting the boundary north to the Angus/Aberdeenshire border was a disgrace and should never be forgotten......

Some of the people running ERSJFA sides would be happier in the amateurs by the sounds of it.

Edited by cmontheloknow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Dev said:

....In the event that the NCL, North and Tayside Juniors joined up and Tier 6 was run on an the basis of these three  geographically determined areas travel wouldn't be an issue either....

It would be easy enough to do, but this is not what is currently happening. Only the NCL and the north region are negotiating with the HL in the relevant working group and the future status of Tayside never even rates a mention when this gets discussed in HL circles online or gets reported by media outlets from north of Stonehaven. It only ever gets brought up by people on P&B as far as I can see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It would be easy enough to do, but this is not what is currently happening. Only the NCL and the north region are negotiating with the HL in the relevant working group and the future status of Tayside never even rates a mention when this gets discussed in HL circles online or gets reported by media outlets from north of Stonehaven. It only ever gets brought up by people on P&B as far as I can see.

What working group would that be? The Highland League Pyramid Working Group basically ended in November 2018 when they said they weren't interested.

Everything since then has just been the leagues talking to each other. NCL with the Highland League more than anyone which is why that looks possible for 2020-21.

When the one writer wrote the same story in different papers with quotes from Rod Houston about NCL & North Juniors looking good for the pyramid. The North Region secretary was quick to react with a 'hold your horses' response.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/2142565/talk-of-north-junior-football-clubs-being-ready-for-highland-league-promotion-plan-premature/

14/04/2020 by Jamie Durent

Quote

Talk of north junior football clubs being ready for Highland League promotion plan ‘premature’

Any talk of the north juniors being ready to form a “tier six” below the Highland League is premature.

Highland League secretary Rod Houston had said on Thursday that proposals were in place from the start of next season, which would introduce relegation to its league and promotion from the North Caledonian League and North Region Superleague.

However Richard Easton, secretary of the North Region Junior FA, said only informal talks had taken place, before the current lockdown was imposed, and no concrete proposal is in the pipeline.

He said: “We have had very early discussions but there’s nothing in place for us at the moment. We just wanted to see what the plan was if any of our clubs wanted to progress through the pyramid.

“If some time in the future they want to take the step up, improve their facilities or maybe feel they’ve outgrown junior football, it gives them the platform to do so.

“But there’s not too many clubs in that situation just now if an agreement was to be put in place. That is a long way away.”

There may well be an appetite there at some clubs within the north junior structure, longer term, to look at progression up the leagues.

Easton added: “I think for some clubs there is, given the circumstance are right. That would be down to the individual clubs. You’ve got some clubs that are more ambitious and some clubs that are quite happy playing junior football. It’s on a case-by-case basis.

“The criteria is strict and there would be very few clubs that would meet that currently.”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^^FWF recently used a 2010 version of the Highland League constitution to try to claim that you don't need to be licensed to join the HL. In a similar way outdated information is being recycled here because it fits a preferred narrative. This recent flurry of posts on this topic was initiated by info from an NCL officeholder linked to Tain St Duthus that was posted on Fitba North. According to him the NCL have agreed to the HL's terms to be a tier 6 feeder, and they are now waiting for the response from the north juniors to determine whether this goes ahead in 2020-21.

http://www.fitbanorth.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8529#p733592

Quote

Not news per se, as it's been publicly acknowledged that the NCFA are in support of a sixth tier in the North - but this week the NCFA formally intimated their agreement with the terms offered for the pyramid agreement between the SHFL and the NCFA, which would see the NCFA become Tier 6 for 2020-21, all being well.

This was followed up on here by this:

Quote

There is still discussion to be had about what a Tier 6 structure would look like, with all three associations, the Highland League, the North Caledonian League and the North Region Superleague, required to agree on the terms. Whether that will happen before the start of the delayed 2020-21 season remains to be seen.

At the time of writing, the North Caledonian FA management committee have expressed their agreement with the proposal made by the office bearers of the Highland League, but the view of the North Region Junior management committee is still to be heard. We can but wait and see what the future holds

 

Edited by LongTimeLurker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

^^^FWF recently used a 2010 version of the Highland League constitution to try to claim that you don't need to be licensed to join the HL. In a similar way outdated information is being recycled here because it fits a preferred narrative. This recent flurry of posts on this topic was initiated by info from an NCL officeholder linked to Tain St Duthus that was posted on Fitba North. According to him the NCL have agreed to the HL's terms to be a tier 6 feeder, and they are now waiting for the response from the north juniors to determine whether this goes ahead in 2020-21.

http://www.fitbanorth.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8529#p733592

This was followed up on here by this:

The quotes are the wrong way round time wise:

Book quote was written sometime before 22/07/2020:

Quote

There is still discussion to be had about what a Tier 6 structure would look like, with all three associations, the Highland League, the North Caledonian League and the North Region Superleague, required to agree on the terms. Whether that will happen before the start of the delayed 2020-21 season remains to be seen.

At the time of writing, the North Caledonian FA management committee have expressed their agreement with the proposal made by the office bearers of the Highland League, but the view of the North Region Junior management committee is still to be heard. We can but wait and see what the future holds

The update was from 28/07/2020 and doesn't mention the Juniors.

image.thumb.png.877084dfbb0e0665105865fe31c8aee0.png

My "preferred narrative" here is that the NCL is in the pyramid for 2020-21 dependent on COVID factors / HFL sign off, and isn't reliant on the North Juniors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, MacGafraidh said:

In the same way the SOS and EOS didn’t wait for the Juniors, I hardly see why The Caley league has to.

It's the HL that gets to decide who to make an agreement with as they are already recognised as the tier 5 league. If the north region have to sign off as well before the NCL can get in, it will be because it suits the HL for things to unfold that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 04/08/2020 at 13:13, LongTimeLurker said:

It's the HL that gets to decide who to make an agreement with as they are already recognised as the tier 5 league. If the north region have to sign off as well before the NCL can get in, it will be because it suits the HL for things to unfold that way.

"Suits" the HL is the wrong word.....

It makes "sense" if the north juniors join up along with the NCL.

Relegation is the key here and where you get relegated too.

Right now teams to the east of Elgin play in the Aberdeenshire cup,while teams to the west of Elgin,Lossie and Rothes included play in the North of Scotland cup,the same will apply to relegation in any future set up below the HL,it will undoubtedly be regional due to the size of area involved.

If from the east side of Moray,Aberdeenshire or Aberdeen you'll get relegated effectively into what was the old north super league.

If from the west side of Moray or Highland you'll get relegated into what was the NCL.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Whitburn Vale said:

"Suits" the HL is the wrong word.....

It makes "sense" if the north juniors join up along with the NCL.

Relegation is the key here and where you get relegated too.

Right now teams to the east of Elgin play in the Aberdeenshire cup,while teams to the west of Elgin,Lossie and Rothes included play in the North of Scotland cup,the same will apply to relegation in any future set up below the HL,it will undoubtedly be regional due to the size of area involved.

If from the east side of Moray,Aberdeenshire or Aberdeen you'll get relegated effectively into what was the old north super league.

If from the west side of Moray or Highland you'll get relegated into what was the NCL.

 

The Moray split is because Banffshire teams were historically Aberdeenshire FA members and the (old) Moray teams were North of Scotland FA.

Banffshire then got merged into Moray and the Shire with new boundaries in the 70s. Essentially, if a Moray town has an AB postcode, it's old Banffshire and if it's IV then it's old Moray.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

The Moray split is because Banffshire teams were historically Aberdeenshire FA members and the (old) Moray teams were North of Scotland FA.

Banffshire then got merged into Moray and the Shire with new boundaries in the 70s. Essentially, if a Moray town has an AB postcode, it's old Banffshire and if it's IV then it's old Moray.

 

Spot on CZ,cheers for that 👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pyramid prospects currently ...   someone said HFL helped to establish the `pyramid` ... I would have said `gerrymander` the pyramid ... and what we need is a real pyramid woth HFL (North) in its proper place (maybe one-fifth of promotion rights on population).  If we are to have one ... then there should be a split between the north West ( of Aberdeenshire) and the North-east (including Tayside).

https://scottishpyramidnews.yolasite.com/pyramid.php

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, mick90 said:

Pyramid prospects currently ...   someone said HFL helped to establish the `pyramid` ... I would have said `gerrymander` the pyramid ... and what we need is a real pyramid woth HFL (North) in its proper place (maybe one-fifth of promotion rights on population).  If we are to have one ... then there should be a split between the north West ( of Aberdeenshire) and the North-east (including Tayside).

https://scottishpyramidnews.yolasite.com/pyramid.php

Where would you place Albufeira in the big east/west Algarve debate? It would great if you could give us some comments about football that you might actually have some local knowledge about.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, mick90 said:

and what we need is a real pyramid woth HFL (North) in its proper place (maybe one-fifth of promotion rights on population). 

Population argument is a crock since so many of the major population centres compete in the National leagues.

  • Highland without East Region Premiership = 63
  • Lowland with East Region Premiership = 177

 

  • Highland with East Region Premiership = 80
  • Lowland without East Region Premiership = 160

Despite the population advantage the Lowland area doesn't have 4x the number of semi-professional clubs. The number & spread of clubs operating at this level is more of an indicator for a 3 region split.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The worst thing those in charge did when setting this whole thing up was do a north/south split. Fucked the whole thing, possibly for a long time to come. 

As for mick90 making a reappearance on here, tell me he's sticking to here and not coming back to Fitba North to share his wisdom once again. Less wise than Trump, thon. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It never would have gotten started otherwise.

You've got to remember that the Scottish pyramid is still in its infancy. The English pyramid has been on the go since the late i0s early nineties and has constantly evolved and been tweaked over time. I suspect the same will happen with the Scottish version

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, dwl123 said:

You've got to remember that the Scottish pyramid is still in its infancy. The English pyramid has been on the go since the late i0s early nineties and has constantly evolved and been tweaked over time. I suspect the same will happen with the Scottish version

I'm aware. The changes to the English pyramid even has its own wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_non-League_football_system

People look at the snapshot of where the likes of England are now in comparison to Scotland and fear that's how its going to be forever. Right now we've just seen the creation of the WoSFL as the first major change. With the NCL and North Region hopefully to follow soon.

Its still going to get tweaked over time especially once clubs start closing the gap on standards both on and off the field with the bottom of the SPFL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Think given time the Scottish pyramid will settle down, clubs will be licensed, the top 12 or so non lge grounds will be spfl ready. The only problems I see are the leagues where they are running scared that anything like 2 or 3 up and down -guaranteed-  will come into being, once and for all. 

All licenced grounds outwith the SPFL are already ready. Entry level is the requirement. Personally, I don't think we'll see automatic relegation from SPFL2 until the Highland/Lowland club is consistently winning the playoff. Even then, vested interests will apply...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

All licenced grounds outwith the SPFL are already ready. Entry level is the requirement. Personally, I don't think we'll see automatic relegation from SPFL2 until the Highland/Lowland club is consistently winning the playoff. Even then, vested interests will apply...

Vested interest will always apply. The time things will change will be when those vested interests change.  

Automatic relegation will happen when there are a notable group of spfl clubs(mostly in league 2 but some elsewhere) who have experienced life outside of the spfl.  It will  happen when those clubs start thinking ‘we need to change how clubs get promoted from tier 5, that was a right pain in the arse to get promoted from and I really don’t fancy another 5 years down there if we have a bad season and get relegated’ It will take a while for that to happen but it was essentially the feeling that eventually allowed the spfl merger and the play-off structure between championship and premiership to happen.

Edited by parsforlife
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...