Highland Pyramid

[FairWeatherFan]

2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Book arrived today, quite a lengthy piece about the pyramid, including this, looks like the NRJFA will have to be involved to get Tier 6 up and running. Things could have moved on since he wrote this though.

 

Looks like the book was out before the latest FN update. So hopefully it's moving ahead for 20/21 regardless of the juniors signed up.

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...and as usual no mention whatsoever of Tayside.

Fictional league body not represented in real world discussions #shocked

[LongTimeLurker]

There is nothing fictional about the east region's Tayside league. If the SJFA's north region is already involved in the discussions with the NCL and the HL, there is no obvious reason why the other SJFA region with a division full of clubs north of the Club 42 boundary (plus Tayport) wouldn't be involved as well beyond there being zero interest amongst any of the parties involved in having Tayside teams on board in that context

[craigkillie]

There is no Tayside league in the ERJFA, nor any body representing the Tayside clubs, so it is indeed fictional.

[FairWeatherFan]

50 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

east region's Tayside league.

There's an East Region. There's no Tayside League though.

• No President
• No Fixture Secretary
• No Cup competitions other than the Tayisde / North Cup
• No Constitution
• No recognition from the SJFA
• No guaranteed entry into the SFA Scottish Cup as that's for the East Region champion

Since you're big into conspiracies and machinations. How about this one. Highland League gets the North Region to enter the pyramid. Lowland League has the EoSFL. The SJFA East Region clubs then end up having to apply to whoever is willing to accept them or sit outside like they have been doing. Pyramid complete.

[LongTimeLurker]

Truly bizarre stuff. The north region can negotiate with the HL, but the east region can't even though it now has split into two leagues that almost perfectly align with the Club 42 boundary line?

In a PWG context with the LL, it was never the west and east superleagues that did the negotiating. It was always a larger junior association negotiating for both. Something to ponder then is why it isn't Tom Johnston that is doing the negotiating this time with the HL?

Obvious answer is that nobody other than the usual suspects on P&B pyramid threads seriously expects Tayside to be a factor where HL tier 6 feeders are concerned, so the north region can fly solo this time.

[Stag Nation]

3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Truly bizarre stuff. The north region can negotiate with the HL, but the east region can't even though it now has split into two leagues that almost perfectly align with the Club 42 boundary line?

In a PWG context with the LL, it was never the west and east superleagues that did the negotiating. It was always a larger junior association negotiating for both. Something to ponder then is why it isn't Tom Johnston that is doing the negotiating this time with the HL?

Obvious answer is that nobody other than the usual suspects on P&B pyramid threads seriously expects Tayside to be a factor where HL tier 6 feeders are concerned, so the north region can fly solo this time.

The other obvious answer is that TJ either (a) doesn't care about Tayside, (b) has no credibility with either Seniors or Juniors, or (c) both.

[Cyclizine]

14 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Truly bizarre stuff. The north region can negotiate with the HL, but the east region can't even though it now has split into two leagues that almost perfectly align with the Club 42 boundary line?

In a PWG context with the LL, it was never the west and east superleagues that did the negotiating. It was always a larger junior association negotiating for both. Something to ponder then is why it isn't Tom Johnston that is doing the negotiating this time with the HL?

Obvious answer is that nobody other than the usual suspects on P&B pyramid threads seriously expects Tayside to be a factor where HL tier 6 feeders are concerned, so the north region can fly solo this time.

Or perhaps instead any Tayside clubs wishing to enter the pyramid can apply to the NRJFA once it's at Tier 6. SJFA/ERJFA officials have shown they have no interest in good faith negotiations.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Cyclizine

[FairWeatherFan]

30 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Truly bizarre stuff.

Not really the "truly bizarre stuff" is the East Region clubs that have shown no interest in joining the EoSFL over multiple years now with no geographical doubts at all to factor in. Even one that did have geographical concerns 'Luncarty' sought clarification and entry into the pyramid by acting on their own behalf.

The East Region collectively have shown no interest in joining the pyramid they let the SJFA negotiate during the PWG. The 1to1 meeting(s) they had with the EoSFL were not about a merger apparently and never led anywhere. Then following the breakdown of the PWG and with full knowledge of a number of members applying to the EoSFL and the creation of a WoSFL looking likely, the East Region did nothing.

Sorry, that's no true. The East Region decided on a 17-13 set up with those that were left.

They're happy where they are and not negotiating with anyone at this point. You'll notice all the other changes in the pyramid have been led by those wanting to join engaging with the parties involved. Not sat on doing nothing waiting to be asked.

30 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Obvious answer is that nobody other than the usual suspects on P&B pyramid threads seriously expects Tayside to be a factor where HL tier 6 feeders are concerned.

You do realise you're talking about yourself right? No one had mentioned Tayside on this thread for a while looking back at the last few pages. It was all about the NCL and North Region, and Dyce Juniors joining the ADFA.

[Andy groundhopper]

Be interesting if and when the HL get a feeder league below, from the North region, guessing say 16 clubs. Would the Tayside clubs be able to apply, if there weren't enough interested clubs wishing to join ?  Appears the North Juniors aren't that keen, while the NCL wants to push on, be good for the pyramid - would give it a firm solid base to build from in the future.

[LongTimeLurker]

58 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

Or perhaps instead any Tayside clubs wishing to enter the pyramid can apply to the NRJFA once it's at Tier 6. SJFA/ERJFA officials have shown they have no interest in good faith negotiations.

Possibly, but changing regions has to go through the SJFA with a 12 month notice period and Montrose Roselea were viewed as being right on the boundary. Taking applications for a new senior grade North of Scotland league would be the way to do a combined Dundee and Aberdeen setup if the WoS was being used as the template, but that's not what is happening. Instead of doing it that way a pre-existing SJFA region with an already defined geography that doesn't neatly align with the Club42 boundary is being lined up to be one of two tier 6 feeders.

Edited July 31, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[welshbairn]

5 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...and as usual no mention whatsoever of Tayside.

Tayside clubs have shown zero interest in joining the Northern set up, which is open to applications at Tier 5, and the NRJFA have expressed no interest in getting together with them. All I've heard is hostility from the former party and disinterest from the latter. Why is it even a thing?

[LongTimeLurker]

14 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Tayside clubs have shown zero interest in joining the Northern set up, which is open to applications at Tier 5, and the NRJFA have expressed no interest in getting together with them. All I've heard is hostility from the former party and disinterest from the latter. Why is it even a thing?

A lot of people in EoS circles are keen on the Club 42 boundary because they didn't like travelling to Tayside in an east region context, but the HL, NCL and north region don't appear to have received the memo that they are supposed to be aligning themselves with it. That's probably because neither the SFA or SPFL have appeared to actually want things to be organised that way either in recent times.

Edited July 31, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Jimmy Shaker]

All I did was go out to get chips and I come back to this.

[welshbairn]

27 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

A lot of people in EoS circles are keen on the Club 42 boundary because they didn't like travelling to Tayside in an east region context, but the HL, NCL and north region don't appear to have received the memo that they are supposed to be aligning themselves with it. That's probably because neither the SFA or SPFL have appeared to actually want things to be organised that way either in recent times.

Do you think the NCL and HL should put a pause on trying to get a working pyramid going until Tayside's boundary issues are resolved to everyone's satisfaction?

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Do you think the NCL and HL should put a pause on trying to get a working pyramid going until Tayside's boundary issues are resolved to everyone's satisfaction?

Bit like asking should the EoS & SoS sit outside the pyramid until everyone else got on board.

This has been a couple of years in the making since the NCL AGM in 2018. They're obviously happy with whatever arrangement they've come up with.

[LongTimeLurker]

16 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Do you think the NCL and HL should put a pause on trying to get a working pyramid going until Tayside's boundary issues are resolved to everyone's satisfaction?

No, they should do their best to look after numero uno because everybody else has been in all of this. 

[Dev]

I like to speculate on what might/might not happen in the foreseeable future so, at present, I am thinking along the lines of what happens if the NCL becomes a Tier 5 league ahead of any such movement from the North and/or Tayside (East Region) Juniors.

Will it spur ambition and investment in the NCL area amongst clubs which are currently outside the NCL or even don't currently exist at adult level? I say this as all clubs in the area would then know that the door is open and that it will stay open, so ambition and long term investment might become less unviable than it has been to date. Note to Inverness City Council to get off its' rear end and do more to encourage and to support local football.

If the NCL becomes Tier 5 with effect from 2020/21 or 2021/22 will that cause current Juniors in the North/Tayside to get restless? Maybe just as has been seen in the East and West?

Banks O' Dee (already licenced) and Dyce will be in the Aberdeenshire FA next season and have, or are close to having, the necessary facilities to go senior. Aberdeen University may see some benefits to being a senior club too - even if stopping short of a club licence? If these three went it could create a ripple effect with enough clubs also going to set off the rest??

If the door is opened, creating opportunity, then clubs  will consider taking it as they will have reason to believe that this is for keeps i.e. worthwhile to, at least, consider what's involved to step up to senior status - and they won't need floodlights just to do that as becoming licenced is another level of investment altogether. It has happened in the East and West and may be starting in the NCL area (Loch Ness, Scourie).

If the North Juniors stick with the JFA will the more westerly clubs consider that there could be some merits in switching to the NCL and becoming senior clubs with the chance, if desired, to take the licencing route in future, joining Under 20's Development league football, etc. (Is there any merit?)

In the Tayside (East Region) there's scarcely any movement into this set-up from the Amateur ranks. When was the last time an amateur side moved into the Juniors here? Will there come a time when e.g. Scone Thistle might get cold feet and switch to the EoS? It's said that they're more Dundee oriented but if players decide to switch to nearby EoS clubs this could create a pressure which may be difficult to with-stand.

The current leading East/Tayside clubs include most which could cope with a joint top division shared with the best of the North Juniors. Travel to Aberdeenshire isn't really a major issue these days for the strongest clubs. Would it be practical to create a North-East Senior League with only the top division covering the whole of the present North and East/Tayside Juniors areas i.e. the lower clubs playing in the same geographical areas as at present. Pushing up the best Tayside clubs could make it easier for current amateurs to plan for and to make the step up?

 

[Marten]

17 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There is nothing fictional about the east region's Tayside league. If the SJFA's north region is already involved in the discussions with the NCL and the HL, there is no obvious reason why the other SJFA region with a division full of clubs north of the Club 42 boundary (plus Tayport) wouldn't be involved as well beyond there being zero interest amongst any of the parties involved in having Tayside teams on board in that context

The East Region league has split in 2, but the East Region as an organisation is still one, there is no "Tayside region" even though in practise there is a Tayside league. So there is no organisation to invite to formal talks.

I know for a fact that Tayside club officials talk to NRJFA & HL officials on an informal basis. Wether and how much they discuss the pyramid & potential Tayside access is not something I know, but I know they at least talk to each other on an informal basis. It's also worth mentioning that the boundary issue isn't over yet. The SPFL & HL agree on it moving, they are apparently not happy with the LL's attitude on this as they are the ones blocking this. But they are still trying to get it sorted. A lot will probably depend on whether or not Brechin find themselves in trouble again next season.

[LongTimeLurker]

The first part makes no sense. The SJFA could represent the Tayside clubs in the same way it did in the LL PWG meetings. Tom Johnston's posture was that all of the east region and all of the now departed west region should be LL feeders, so the north region was able to fly solo where the HL is concerned on pyramid matters. Senior SFA officeholders were happy to go along with that arrangement and tried to make it happen but could not overcome the obstacle of the EoS having a veto over changes to the LL playoff.

The second part is on the money. The SPFL and HL want the Club 42 boundary shifted or eliminated from the rules and the only impediment to that happening is the LL. The HL is only negotiating to take on tier 6 feeders in the parts of the country it views as its traditional catchment and does not want Tayside.

The EoS accepted Luncarty and is taking the posture that any club from north of the line can apply subject to membership approval. That is useful for them as a way of eliminating any possible rationale for a role for the east region. That's the obvious way in for any Tayside club that wants to be part of the pyramid because the Midland League concept is unlikely to be accepted at tier 6 by either the HL or LL 

Edited August 1, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Whitburn Vale]

I will say this once again......speaking to official's from Whitburn juniors,Bathgate Thistle and Harthill Royal that I either work with or know they are adamant they want no part in regularly travelling to Tayside.

Speaking to a guy on the Harthill committee yesterday,hes even moaning about travelling to Eyemouth and Coldstream,if Harthill join the EoS !!!