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ICTChris

The great University con

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I say this to many people - its not about what you study*, its about the skills you acquire in doing so which matter.
* Obviously all you politics, history and sociology graduates can f**k off to the job centre.


Where a jobs advisor would no doubt point them to the most buckshee ‘graduate’ job of the lot: school teaching.

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50 minutes ago, mathematics said:

I say this to many people - its not about what you study*, its about the skills you acquire in doing so which matter.

* Obviously all you politics, history and sociology graduates can f**k off to the job centre.

😄

To be fair, now that I'm about to retire, I'd love to do a second degree in politics or history.  Just to take up a place and piss off some poor 18-year-old.

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8 hours ago, CountyFan said:

Anyone looking at the value derived from university attendance solely through the prism of 'career success', which is completely subjective anyway, is spectacularly missing the point. 

^^^^ Got a useless degree, imho...

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I was close to starting at Napier into third year for. BEng course after my apprenticeship but decided to go back to work after finishing my HND in a few months. I found student life too lax and without a part time job a bit of a doss about.

I really do regret not going and finishing the degree though as I’ve seen the ‘class divide’ it creates at times.

Last job I had there was a guy there who had the same degree I was going for, the gaffer came from an academic background and despite me coming in and doing a more complex job than him wasn’t considered an equal and treated as if I was second class. I don’t know if this was Edinburgh snobbery or what but quite a few colleagues turned their noses up when I said I didn’t have a degree as if it was essential. I ended up training computer science graduates on basic hardware test and debug. None of this mattered and I was paid less than people whose job was just to solder and wire up cable harnesses. I felt bitter about it and left when the other guy moved away and they brought in another graduate who I had to train ffs. 

Current job there’s definitely a major advantage to having a degree. In a department of 30 around 5 have been promoted. All of them had a degree. Nearly all of them were poor performers initially and had zero hands on skills or experience. Again the management comes from an academic background and therefore maybe see themselves and promote what they know. I feel that some of the graduate types display very good social skills and confidence and rather than do the job well they tend to network to progress. Fair play I suppose but it doesn’t always guarantee the best candidates. Again I probably sound bitter but it’s not personal.

A degree for a design or high level job like a doctor or scientist is absolutely necessary. For anything else it’s just a way to get ahead of others and it’s quite overrated I learned lots more actually working in real life in various roles. I’ve thought about completing the degree though but I’m scared that it would be pointless and a waste of time. 

I heard a good idea from someone on a radio discussion last week. He suggested leaving school at 16 doing an HNC then HND and starting uni in 3rd year, if you didn’t like it then at least you would have something to fall back on. There’s far too much emphasis on exam results and we seem to define intelligence as looking at something then writing it down again a few weeks later. There should be more options available to youngsters and centres of excellence for various areas to make Scotland a world leader.

 

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1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:

I was close to starting at Napier into third year for. BEng course after my apprenticeship but decided to go back to work after finishing my HND in a few months. I found student life too lax and without a part time job a bit of a doss about.

I really do regret not going and finishing the degree though as I’ve seen the ‘class divide’ it creates at times.

Last job I had there was a guy there who had the same degree I was going for, the gaffer came from an academic background and despite me coming in and doing a more complex job than him wasn’t considered an equal and treated as if I was second class. I don’t know if this was Edinburgh snobbery or what but quite a few colleagues turned their noses up when I said I didn’t have a degree as if it was essential. I ended up training computer science graduates on basic hardware test and debug. None of this mattered and I was paid less than people whose job was just to solder and wire up cable harnesses. I felt bitter about it and left when the other guy moved away and they brought in another graduate who I had to train ffs. 

Current job there’s definitely a major advantage to having a degree. In a department of 30 around 5 have been promoted. All of them had a degree. Nearly all of them were poor performers initially and had zero hands on skills or experience. Again the management comes from an academic background and therefore maybe see themselves and promote what they know. I feel that some of the graduate types display very good social skills and confidence and rather than do the job well they tend to network to progress. Fair play I suppose but it doesn’t always guarantee the best candidates. Again I probably sound bitter but it’s not personal.

A degree for a design or high level job like a doctor or scientist is absolutely necessary. For anything else it’s just a way to get ahead of others and it’s quite overrated I learned lots more actually working in real life in various roles. I’ve thought about completing the degree though but I’m scared that it would be pointless and a waste of time. 

I heard a good idea from someone on a radio discussion last week. He suggested leaving school at 16 doing an HNC then HND and starting uni in 3rd year, if you didn’t like it then at least you would have something to fall back on. There’s far too much emphasis on exam results and we seem to define intelligence as looking at something then writing it down again a few weeks later. There should be more options available to youngsters and centres of excellence for various areas to make Scotland a world leader.

 

This might be the greatest policy ever devised but i stopped reading after Napier.

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I had no idea what I wanted to do leaving school, so much so I stayed on until 6th year and ended up going to uni, thus getting a degree. I haven’t really used my degree but I’m glad of it anyway. Would I have went if it was going to cost £30k? Absolutely not and while I haven’t really used it, it has certainly helped me on the way as to where I am. To get further in my field, I will need to study further and probably get another degree.

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Spoke to some industry folk a while back and one old c**t was all for closing down universities. 

“So you’re all for your industry taking on and funding 2000 apprentices a year and training them up for 4 years whilst working on the job then are you?”

Thought not.

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6 hours ago, mathematics said:

I say this to many people - its not about what you study*, its about the skills you acquire in doing so which matter.

* Obviously all you politics, history and sociology graduates can f**k off to the job centre.

actually I did... :whistle

726672875_historytoday.jpg.1cfd3e893a40199cc9418849b2bd52cc.jpg

.. but my degree means I can call English "academics" like Starkey ignorant cnuts when they deign to comment on Scottish history. And I think I got more out of it than, say, 4 years square bashing. 

 

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1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said:

This might be the greatest policy ever devised but i stopped reading after Napier.

Like I said, class system and entitlement.

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9 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

Like I said, class system and entitlement.

I know but going to a decent university enables you to recognise subtelty, irony and context and not just the black shapes on the white paper.

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11 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

I was close to starting at Napier into third year for. BEng course after my apprenticeship but decided to go back to work after finishing my HND in a few months. I found student life too lax and without a part time job a bit of a doss about.

I really do regret not going and finishing the degree though as I’ve seen the ‘class divide’ it creates at times.

Last job I had there was a guy there who had the same degree I was going for, the gaffer came from an academic background and despite me coming in and doing a more complex job than him wasn’t considered an equal and treated as if I was second class. I don’t know if this was Edinburgh snobbery or what but quite a few colleagues turned their noses up when I said I didn’t have a degree as if it was essential. I ended up training computer science graduates on basic hardware test and debug. None of this mattered and I was paid less than people whose job was just to solder and wire up cable harnesses. I felt bitter about it and left when the other guy moved away and they brought in another graduate who I had to train ffs. 

Current job there’s definitely a major advantage to having a degree. In a department of 30 around 5 have been promoted. All of them had a degree. Nearly all of them were poor performers initially and had zero hands on skills or experience. Again the management comes from an academic background and therefore maybe see themselves and promote what they know. I feel that some of the graduate types display very good social skills and confidence and rather than do the job well they tend to network to progress. Fair play I suppose but it doesn’t always guarantee the best candidates. Again I probably sound bitter but it’s not personal.

A degree for a design or high level job like a doctor or scientist is absolutely necessary. For anything else it’s just a way to get ahead of others and it’s quite overrated I learned lots more actually working in real life in various roles. I’ve thought about completing the degree though but I’m scared that it would be pointless and a waste of time. 

I heard a good idea from someone on a radio discussion last week. He suggested leaving school at 16 doing an HNC then HND and starting uni in 3rd year, if you didn’t like it then at least you would have something to fall back on. There’s far too much emphasis on exam results and we seem to define intelligence as looking at something then writing it down again a few weeks later. There should be more options available to youngsters and centres of excellence for various areas to make Scotland a world leader.

 

Clearly, as with it seems every other job and workplace you’ve ever been in. Yet another example of you being victimised despite being the perfect worker by management.

You must be the unluckiest person on planet Earth to find yourself in the same position in every workplace you go into! Unless... 🤔

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Dropped out of uni at 18 because I had just picked a course based on what subjects I had done well at in school and wanted to move out and meet new people etc, was a total piss up and I learned absolutely nothing from my course and was incapable of doing any of the course work due to lack of interest/motivation. Went back to do an HND at 26 and ended up in third year at uni and got a decent degree but now do a job that I could have done with just an HNC.

Think there’s too many young people that feel obliged to go to uni and feel it’s the only way to get a decent job. Most students if you were to ask them honestly would say they are only on the course to get a piece of paper at the end of it rather than having a genuine thirst for knowledge on the subject they are studying.

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5 minutes ago, throbber said:

Dropped out of uni at 18 because I had just picked a course based on what subjects I had done well at in school and wanted to move out and meet new people etc, was a total piss up and I learned absolutely nothing from my course and was incapable of doing any of the course work due to lack of interest/motivation. Went back to do an HND at 26 and ended up in third year at uni and got a decent degree but now do a job that I could have done with just an HNC.

Think there’s too many young people that feel obliged to go to uni and feel it’s the only way to get a decent job. Most students if you were to ask them honestly would say they are only on the course to get a piece of paper at the end of it rather than having a genuine thirst for knowledge on the subject they are studying.

Very similar to my own experience. Went to uni cos I was pretty good at school, got decent grades etc and it was the "done thing". I always sort of wanted to leave at 16 and get a trade but everyone seemed aghast when I suggested it because I was "too intelligent for that sort of thing". Lasted 3 months at uni before I canned it. Went back to do something different the next year, canned it again. Dossed around doing menial office jobs for a few years before eventually finding a career that suited me which did require a bit more education but in more of a hands on college way which suited me much better. I could top my qualification up to a degree but doing a year distance learning but to be honest I couldn't think of anything worse. Not really required for progression in my chosen career where its mostly down to experience.

Still wish I'd went and got a trade though.

Uni is a waste of time for most people but hey, it keeps the unemployment statistics down, right?

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13 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

I was close to starting at Napier into third year for. BEng course after my apprenticeship but decided to go back to work after finishing my HND in a few months. I found student life too lax and without a part time job a bit of a doss about.

I really do regret not going and finishing the degree though as I’ve seen the ‘class divide’ it creates at times.

Last job I had there was a guy there who had the same degree I was going for, the gaffer came from an academic background and despite me coming in and doing a more complex job than him wasn’t considered an equal and treated as if I was second class. I don’t know if this was Edinburgh snobbery or what but quite a few colleagues turned their noses up when I said I didn’t have a degree as if it was essential. I ended up training computer science graduates on basic hardware test and debug. None of this mattered and I was paid less than people whose job was just to solder and wire up cable harnesses. I felt bitter about it and left when the other guy moved away and they brought in another graduate who I had to train ffs. 

Current job there’s definitely a major advantage to having a degree. In a department of 30 around 5 have been promoted. All of them had a degree. Nearly all of them were poor performers initially and had zero hands on skills or experience. Again the management comes from an academic background and therefore maybe see themselves and promote what they know. I feel that some of the graduate types display very good social skills and confidence and rather than do the job well they tend to network to progress. Fair play I suppose but it doesn’t always guarantee the best candidates. Again I probably sound bitter but it’s not personal.

A degree for a design or high level job like a doctor or scientist is absolutely necessary. For anything else it’s just a way to get ahead of others and it’s quite overrated I learned lots more actually working in real life in various roles. I’ve thought about completing the degree though but I’m scared that it would be pointless and a waste of time. 

I heard a good idea from someone on a radio discussion last week. He suggested leaving school at 16 doing an HNC then HND and starting uni in 3rd year, if you didn’t like it then at least you would have something to fall back on. There’s far too much emphasis on exam results and we seem to define intelligence as looking at something then writing it down again a few weeks later. There should be more options available to youngsters and centres of excellence for various areas to make Scotland a world leader.

 

You seem to suggest that social skills and networking ability are kind of cheats or shortcuts. For higher level jobs these are the skills required. 

Being really good at the job at a given level is great and people should take pride in their work, but it won't get you promoted to the next level. 

I don't think a degree means that graduates will always do all jobs better than non graduates. In the real world though, having a degree usually helps if you want career advancement. So it doesn't matter if we think it should make a difference or not. 

Personally I think my degree helps me in my job, but probably overall I wasted time at University. I did do a superhuman amount of fannying about, changing courses and repeating years though. I think it would have been well worth 3 years starting at 18.

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1 minute ago, coprolite said:

You seem to suggest that social skills and networking ability are kind of cheats or shortcuts. For higher level jobs these are the skills required. 

Being really good at the job at a given level is great and people should take pride in their work, but it won't get you promoted to the next level. 

I don't think a degree means that graduates will always do all jobs better than non graduates. In the real world though, having a degree usually helps if you want career advancement. So it doesn't matter if we think it should make a difference or not. 

Personally I think my degree helps me in my job, but probably overall I wasted time at University. I did do a superhuman amount of fannying about, changing courses and repeating years though. I think it would have been well worth 3 years starting at 18.

The job im in now is related to my degree but its basically change management, strategic planning, partnership working and budgets.

I could probably do the same half arsed effort at the job in any industry with the right specialist guys in the team to advise. 

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Clearly, as with it seems every other job and workplace you’ve ever been in. Yet another example of you being victimised despite being the perfect worker by management.
You must be the unluckiest person on planet Earth to find yourself in the same position in every workplace you go into! Unless...
2 jobs from 7.
I didnt say victimised just not treated objectively. I'm not the only person in those workplaces like that. When you're at an age where you've worked hard going through night school and try hard and outperform colleagues but fail to get rewarded then you do start do feel a bit victimised.
I can see how I come across as moaning but if you run a race and keep coming first then see that the gold medal goes to the guy in third place because they're a sychophantic creep then it gets annoying after a while. Especially when combined with that the creep and others try and bully and mob harder workers to project their insecurities onto others.
Toxic workplaces and managers is at an epidemic level. It's far from every workplace but it seems like being a hard worker who wants to do their best for the company isn't what some companies want.
Being a work shy lapdog who toadys up to incompetent and corrupt managers is the way forward it seems.
All I ask for was fairness and objectivity based on output and quality of work.
I certainly dont think I'm special or amazing but I won't accept being persecuted or bullied for having, in my mind, good qualities and personality traits.
It does seem that some graduates come out of university and expect to step on guys with lots more experience just because they paid lots of money for a fancy degree. It seems a bit odd to me and maybe the reason for companies being in total chaos as when it comes to the coal face and being exposed they're usually nowhere to be seen.
Sorry for going off topic but I'm not going to sit back and not try to defend myself against character assassination. When your whole belief system and reality is called into question by gaslighting and invalidation you need to fight it. It's like a red rag to a bull.

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I think it's a shame that our careerist culture has turned education into something we do purely to get a better job and make more money. What about learning in order to learn?

I went to uni at 18 and I wish I'd waited till I was older because I didn't appreciate the opportunity at the time. It's an incredible opportunity to get to dedicate your time to going to lectures by genuine experts on a topic and be directed in your reading and discussion on the topic. What an unbelievable thing to get to spend your time doing. I'd love to be able to go back and do it again now as a proper adult and not as a stupid immature wean.

I studied politics, history and languages at uni and they're all topics that I still have a genuine interest in. I regularly return to the books I read at uni and I enjoy talking about them with like-minded people. The chance to learn is a wonderful thing and it's a shame that we use it simply as a stepping-stone to wealth.

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