The great University con

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, coprolite said:

This is all massively about your experience and what you value as "education". I'm surprised that your brilliant bias recognition skills haven't picked this up. 

If somebody's gone to uni to learn software development for example, I'd be massively surprised if they evaluated their experience by anything other than how well it equipped them as a software developer. 

To suggest that it is sad that they don't go all misty eyed at remembering tutorials about project management techniques is just weird. 

I don't think that it's a shame that most people use the opportunities of university to increase their earning potential. 

Most of your arguments otherwise are condescending. 

Not sure what could be considered condescending about a respect for the benefits of education, or why that requires some kind of social bias. You seem to be throwing in phrases and hoping something will stick.

I'm not actually sure what your position is. You seem to be bothered by the suggestion that university is more than a vehicle for career progression, which is my position. I feel perfectly comfortable in holding the view that your position is quite a strange one and am confident that my position is not one that requires any kind of bizarre bias to support.

Read back through the thread. Everybody references their career. That was my point. I find it strange that anyone would be bothered about that.

[coprolite]

5 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Not sure what could be considered condescending about a respect for the benefits of education, or why that requires some kind of social bias. You seem to be throwing in phrases and hoping something will stick.

I'm not actually sure what your position is. You seem to be bothered by the suggestion that university is more than a vehicle for career progression, which is my position. I feel perfectly comfortable in holding the view that your position is quite a strange one and am confident that my position is not one that requires any kind of bizarre bias to support.

Read back through the thread. Everybody references their career. That was my point. I find it strange that anyone would be bothered about that.

My point is that you said it was a shame that people only referred to their career.

I don't think it is a shame, I think it's absolutely fine for people to view university primarily as a means to advance their career. 

It doesn't mean that those people don't value education for its own sake. 

 

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, coprolite said:

My point is that you said it was a shame that people only referred to their career.

I don't think it is a shame, I think it's absolutely fine for people to view university primarily as a means to advance their career. 

It doesn't mean that those people don't value education for its own sake. 

 

And I've never said it's not fine.

I've said it's a shame that everyone sees it that way.

[ICTJohnboy]

My daughter chose to study psychology at Stirling Uni reasoning that it might help her understand my occasional temper tantrums.

What she failed to grasp was that just being the father of a teenage daughter was largely responsible for most of my anger issues.

[Am Featha Taigh Nan Clach]

I went to university as a means to an end. While there, I found no enjoyment in listening to lectures or reading, even though the course I did was in a subject I enjoy.

I'd liken it to Higher English sucking the fun out of a book by making you analyse every single line.

[Raidernation]

My degrees have both been relevant.
Mechanical Engineering and my first career was specification of pumps, valves and other process equipment.
Math teaching and now I teach maths

[coprolite]

10 hours ago, JTS98 said:

And I've never said it's not fine.

I've said it's a shame that everyone sees it that way.

 

You strongly suggest it would be better if more people thought uni was to enjoy learning. 

I think too many people are there to enjoy learning and should choose more vocational courses. 

It is fine if people enjoy learning while they are there but that should be incidental. 

7 hours ago, Am Featha *****h Nan Clach said:

I went to university as a means to an end. While there, I found no enjoyment in listening to lectures or reading, even though the course I did was in a subject I enjoy.

I'd liken it to Higher English sucking the fun out of a book by making you analyse every single line.

 

1 hour ago, Raidernation said:

My degrees have both been relevant.
Mechanical Engineering and my first career was specification of pumps, valves and other process equipment.
Math teaching and now I teach maths

These lads clearly show that p&b has its functional utilitarian head screwed on.

They don't need trained thinkers to tell them that their experience is OK. 

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, coprolite said:

 

You strongly suggest it would be better if more people thought uni was to enjoy learning. 

I think too many people are there to enjoy learning and should choose more vocational courses. 

It is fine if people enjoy learning while they are there but that should be incidental. 

 

So I see space for both and seek greater balance but you don't.

I don't think I'm the ideologue in this exchange.

[coprolite]

1 minute ago, JTS98 said:

So I see space for both and seek greater balance but you don't.

I don't think I'm the ideologue in this exchange.

You totally are. 

I commented only on my experience. 

You're the one who saw fit to introduce a value judgement on other people's experience. 

You didn't specifically refer to thickos. But we know what you meant. 

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, coprolite said:

You totally are. 

I commented only on my experience. 

You're the one who saw fit to introduce a value judgement on other people's experience. 

You didn't specifically refer to thickos. But we know what you meant. 

That's quite a leap to make.

Who do you think I'm referring to as 'thickos'?

A baffling statement as I don't think I've criticised any group of people or course or pursuit at all.

You have.

[coprolite]

Fucksakes min

You said it's a shame that people didn't report enjoying learning at university. 

I've tried explaining that it's not a shame. University can be a success for students who don't think that enjoyment of learning is a factor. 

By way of a real example. My mate Rob, as long as I've known him, wanted to be a scientist and specifically, for whatever reason t o find a cure for cancer. 

Everything he did was focused on getting on that program. He did. Last I heard he was a middling authority on g proteins. 

Am I to believe that Rob' s dedication is less worthwhile because he was focused on a career? This is  (unlike me) a good man who wanted to make a real difference. 

Oh aye, and politics as a subject is for the real drongos

Edited August 25, 2019 by coprolite
Splleing

[Hedgecutter]

16 hours ago, Am Featha *****h Nan Clach said:

I went to university as a means to an end. While there, I found no enjoyment in listening to lectures or reading, even though the course I did was in a subject I enjoy.

I'd liken it to Higher English sucking the fun out of a book by making you analyse every single line.

I got a job directly from my undergrad degree and worked for over a decade still really enjoying it.  I later went back to do a PhD and it was that that killed the passion. 

Thankfully that related to a very niche in-demand subject that had me setting up my own consultancy firm.  Of course, if that goes down the pan then I can follow others by turning to academia and twisting the truth about transferable skills etc etc in order to get some naive undergrads to partially bankroll a pet project or two.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Hedgecutter

[Guest JTS98]

10 hours ago, coprolite said:

Fucksakes min

You said it's a shame that people didn't report enjoying learning at university. 

I've tried explaining that it's not a shame. University can be a success for students who don't think that enjoyment of learning is a factor. 

By way of a real example. My mate Rob, as long as I've known him, wanted to be a scientist and specifically, for whatever reason t o find a cure for cancer. 

Everything he did was focused on getting on that program. He did. Last I heard he was a middling authority on g proteins. 

Am I to believe that Rob' s dedication is less worthwhile because he was focused on a career? This is  (unlike me) a good man who wanted to make a real difference. 

Oh aye, and politics as a subject is for the real drongos

Yet again, you fail to grasp that I have at no point expressed or held any objection to learning as a means to an end. I've expressed objection to that being all that our society values. I have at no point, as you imply in the quoted post, said that learning for a specific purpose is less worthy. Of course society requires engineers, doctors, pilots, truck drivers, physicists etc.

You seem to find it impossible to grasp that someone might like more than one thing to be valued or that it might be possible to value both sides rather than simply dismissing one. That's your problem.

You are the one being insulting and you seem to really want to argue with a point I haven't made or even hinted at. The fact that you think I have demeaned anyone hints at you carrying a chip on your shoulder about something. Again, that's your problem.

[sugna]

The two of you are talking down to each other quite a lot.

Calm down, lads.

[Guest JTS98]

1 hour ago, sugna said:

The two of you are talking down to each other quite a lot.

Calm down, lads.

I genuinely don't see how I am.

I expressed a fairly bland opinion, which led the other poster to adopt a fairly insulting tone pretty much immediately.

Don't know what's up with him, to be honest. He seems determined to argue with a point I've never made. If telling someone that is 'talking down' to them, then fair enough.

[Marshmallo]

On 23/08/2019 at 12:25, Fraser Fyvie said:

Complete con, especially those outside of Scotland who are paying 30k or whatever for a degree. Invest that at 18 years old instead and you'll always end up richer than any "career" will give you.

 

On 24/08/2019 at 11:38, Fraser Fyvie said:

Employment is a con tbh. If people were taught how to invest wisely from a young age nobody would be working in their 40s and 50s. 

 

On 24/08/2019 at 11:48, Fraser Fyvie said:

I'm an advocate of not being dependent on a monthly paycheck and answering to a boss 40 hours a week. Whatever makes you happy though.

^^^^^^^^ Has "FX Trader" listed as his occupation on LinkedIn

[ICTChris]

Every time I watch a YouTube video I get an advert that starts with “I can’t believe I used to work the old way, commuting for hours to a corporate office job I hated, now I earn half a million a year from...” and then I skip it, I assume that the above quotes are what I’m missing out on.

[Marshmallo]

6 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Every time I watch a YouTube video I get an advert that starts with “I can’t believe I used to work the old way, commuting for hours to a corporate office job I hated, now I earn half a million a year from...” and then I skip it, I assume that the above quotes are what I’m missing out on.

You cut down on the commute by living in your maw's spare room making a 10er a day buying/selling Thai Baht.

Nothing at all to do with getting KB'd for jobs left right and centre.

[Fraser Fyvie]

13 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

 

 

^^^^^^^^ Has "FX Trader" listed as his occupation on LinkedIn

^^Works for someone else. Has to beg for time off to go on holiday.

Minter.

[Marshmallo]

7 minutes ago, Fraser Fyvie said:

^^Works for someone else. Has to beg for time off to go on holiday.

Minter.

I got you to a tee eh? Do you do your own ironing?