Scotland “decades behind on attitude to race”

[ayrmad]

I've asked hundreds of people about their heritage over the years(sometimes clumsily rather than tactfully), the vast vast majority of those with experience of both countries have said it's night and day between Scotland and England in terms of racism.

I've learned so much about people and their cultures by asking questions, I will continue asking as I've a genuine interest in people and their backgrounds.

I think it could be an absolute disaster if Brexit is denied, it's certainly not going to change the views of racists IMO.

[WeAreElgin]

I once had a taxi driver in Dublin tell me that Jews were the real issue in Ireland and were running the government.

Therefore, everyone in Ireland hates Jews. Best publish a story to The Scotsman.

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

I don't think "which country is the most racist?" is a particularly helpful discussion to have as it just gets people's backs up. It's also going to vary hugely from place to place. I grew up in London which is obviously very different to growing up somewhere like Stoke. Similarly, a Scottish Asian living in Glasgow will probably have a nicer time than one living in Peterhead.

I do think quite a few people on this thread are a bit deluded on the level of overt racism non-white people in Scotland face though.

[ayrmad]

10 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

I don't think "which country is the most racist?" is a particularly helpful discussion to have as it just gets people's backs up. It's also going to vary hugely from place to place. I grew up in London which is obviously very different to growing up somewhere like Stoke. Similarly, a Scottish Asian living in Glasgow will probably have a nicer time than one living in Peterhead.

I do think quite a few people on this thread are a bit deluded on the level of overt racism non-white people in Scotland face though.

Where folk are in Scotland will have as much to do with it rather than delusion.

[G-MAN]

Anecdotal evidence: I grew up in the Midlands of England, where there was plenty of casual racism mainly aimed at Indians and Pakistanis, but still noticed a big jump in racial prejudice when moving to the South-East. It made me question the unspoken assumptions I'd grown up with about Pakistanis, as I couldn't see what the supposed problems were with black people, Asians, the Irish, etc.
Scotland has always seemed weak sauce by comparison when it comes to racism, and I've rarely noticed malice behind the ignorance I've seen, although terms like Paki and Chinky seem to be making a comeback in recent years. None of us honkies will ever really know what life's like for non-caucasians, though, so you have to take people's word for their experiences.
(is "honky" really the most offensive term for white people? We have an easy life)

Slightly off topic but,

If it wasn’t for the word Honky, Shaun Ryder wouldn’t have been able to write the greatest lyric of all time.....

[Marshmallo]

The posts in here tend to back up the assertion. Folk seem to think "attitudes to race" means outright uses of abusive slurs directly to people of another ethnicity. Some good examples given in the thread along the lines of "where are you from originally" or thinking a player "should" be fast because he's black. You see it anecdotally with "jokey" comments or songs about black players having big cocks.

I think the best way I could describe it is that we probably have less racial hatred in Scotland than down South, but people from BAME backgrounds are still seen as unusual/different.

[The Golden God]

As has been said, we definitely have a problem with attitudes but to say we’re worse than England isn’t fair imo.

[Jarballs]

 

 

 

 

Growing up in Inverness there were about two black kids in our school. I remember someone got expelled from school for writing something racist on a Scottish flag in the common room one year, can’t remember what it was though. A lot of people used racist terms casually in conversations, probably without thinking they were racist. I’m sure that other Scottish towns of a similar size were the same, maybe it was different in a city with more of a varied.

 

I have heard it mentioned before by some Black Scottish people that they get asked “but where are you really from” semi regularly.

 

 

Grew up in Inverness myself, mother is white, biological father is black so I was one of the few ethnically diverse in town at the time.

 

I have barely ever experienced any racism at all anywhere in Scotland, and the couple of times I have it has been purely a lazy insult rather than actual hatred, such as being called a "black b*****d" once by someone who was hard of thinking - was clearly just the first thing that came to their mind, could easily have been "speccy b*****d" or "fat b*****d" - not that this makes it excusable. I've always thought that there are very few genuinely racist people in Scotland, there's a difference between actual racists who believe that those different to them are lesser human beings and people ignorant/thick enough to chuck ill-advised insults about.

 

On the very rare occasions that someone has come out with something racist in Inverness they have been utterly hounded by people in the vicinity, by friends and total strangers alike. Best example would be when I was on my way home late on a Saturday night, there was a couple walking with their pal, a guy who was absolutely bollocksed. He did a shit monkey impression and slurred something about me wanting a banana as I passed, I just said "Aye, whatever mate," and kept walking. To this day I have never seen such a look of shock, horror and utter revulsion as on the faces of the couple he was with. Could tell he would be getting torn to shreds by them when he was sober enough.

 

That reaction of disgust has been mirrored on each of the less than half a dozen times someone has come out with something about my colour, it has seen the offender chased out of pubs, shouted down etc. In my experience the vast majority of Invernessians and Scots in general find that behaviour abhorrent and the reaction makes me proud that it won't be tolerated in my city/country. Purely my experiences though, I fully accept that perhaps I've been incredibly lucky and also that things could be different growing up in bigger cities, as [mention=198]ICTChris[/mention] says, or for people of different ethnic backgrounds as other posters have alluded to. However, I find the Makar's claim that we're decades behind England wild to be honest.

 

 

 

[Detournement]

2 hours ago, Jarballs said:

 

 However, I find the Makar's claim that we're decades behind England wild to be hones

 

 

 

I don't think she means in terms of violent attacks or abuse. Just in terms of general integration.

A lot of that is down to numbers and that most black adults in Scotland are first generation immigrants. "Behind" is a poor choice of phrase because it's not a race and there are reasons why places develop in different ways but there is no doubt that London, Birmingham, Manchester and other decent sized places in England are more integrated than Scotland.

[The_Kincardine]

8 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

I think the best way I could describe it is that we probably have less racial hatred in Scotland than down South, but people from BAME backgrounds are still seen as unusual/different.

Nah.  I live my life 'down south' and am in and out of London 2ish days a week and I almost never see these attitudes.  Plus Scotland has this whole ethnocentric dissident movement going on where people garb up in folk dress and bang on about The English. 

[ayrmad]

7 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Nah.  I live my life 'down south' and am in and out of London 2ish days a week and I almost never see these attitudes.  Plus Scotland has this whole ethnocentric dissident movement going on where people garb up in folk dress and bang on about The English. 

Trolling of the highest order, racism and or fear of outsiders is ripping out of loads of folk down south.

[welshbairn]

46 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Plus Scotland has this whole ethnocentric dissident movement going on where people garb up in folk dress and bang on about The English. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by welshbairn

[Melanius Mullarkey]

44 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

.  Plus Scotland has this whole ethnocentric dissident movement going on where people garb up in folk dress and bang on about The English. 

Indeed.  The sooner it gets to f**k the better.

 

[D.A.F.C]

England is definitely worse, just look at the votes for scum like the bnp or UKIP.

It was bad at times though. I can remember abuse to Walters, Cadete and later on Tade. Haven’t heard anything outside football ever.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/oct/16/mark-walters-racism-rangers-coaching-england-aston-villa

Walters abuse was horrible. I’m sure in England it was as bad. This shit still goes on abroad also which is disgusting.

[Hampden Diehard]

Au contraire!

There is a Black Order who, I'm told, are the real bitter ones. I'd love this to be them.

[coprolite]

11 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Nah.  I live my life 'down south' and am in and out of London 2ish days a week and I almost never see these attitudes.  Plus Scotland has this whole ethnocentric dissident movement going on where people garb up in folk dress and bang on about The English. 

 

11 hours ago, Detournement said:

I don't think she means in terms of violent attacks or abuse. Just in terms of general integration.

A lot of that is down to numbers and that most black adults in Scotland are first generation immigrants. "Behind" is a poor choice of phrase because it's not a race and there are reasons why places develop in different ways but there is no doubt that London, Birmingham, Manchester and other decent sized places in England are more integrated than Scotland.

Ham fisted trolling aside, not sure how you'd see an attitude. It's fairly unlikely that folk will wear a badge indicating their degree of racism. 

I live in one of the most historically diverse parts of "down south" where there has been a large west Indian community for ~150 years.

I was speaking to an acquaintance in a pub when my then girlfriend , now wife, who's mixed race came up to speak to me. The acquaintance didn't know I knew her and muttered that she should "go back to Brazil".

The woman who was cutting my hair said she supports brexit because "someone needs to do something about the Muslims". 

I've heard plenty of comedy Indian accents in curry houses etc here as well. 

London might be more diverse, but I'm not sure if it's less racist: the BNP had council seats there. 

Also diversity and integration are not the same thing. Not all immigrants integrate to the same degree. Numbers, circumstance, culture, location and dispersal will all affect the degree to which immigrants become part of a community. 

[The Moonster]

On 17/08/2019 at 16:08, This time Perthshirebell said:

It's still quite rare to see a black person in Scotland.  

Do you not get outside much?

12 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Nah.  I live my life 'down south' and am in and out of London 2ish days a week and I almost never see these attitudes.  

Why is it black people are currently going ape shit over a Home Office campaign to target fried chicken shops with anti-knife crime messages, if you never "see these attitudes"?  These "attitudes" are so deeply ingrained that you're completely ignorant to them.

[Honest_Man#1]

13 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Nah.  I live my life 'down south' and am in and out of London 2ish days a week and I almost never see these attitudes.  Plus Scotland has this whole ethnocentric dissident movement going on where people garb up in folk dress and bang on about The English. 

You don’t notice overtly racist attitudes in by far the most historically ethically diverse city in the country. Shocker.

The only areas of England I’ve spent significant enough periods of time in to judge attitudes in are London and the North East. I didn’t notice much at all in London, because as I say above it’s incredibly ethically diverse and has been for some time. The North East has far friendlier people in general, but I would say there is a larger ‘backward’ element in terms of casual racism. 

[nsr]

I remember as a very small child watching some ancient kids' TV show and being terrified that one of the characters was wearing a turban. What a little racist I was.

[D.A.F.C]

I remember as a very small child watching some ancient kids' TV show and being terrified that one of the characters was wearing a turban. What a little racist I was.

Bertha?

 

I was more scared by the wee robot.

Turban guy was sound.