oneteaminglasgow Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Northern Ireland is part of the UK. When the UK leaves N.I. leaves too. Or are SFIRA doing their usual threats of do what we want or our Military Wing might return to violence.I mean, I’m no expert but I reckon Sinn Fein might know what they’re talking about when it comes to what might prompt trouble in Northern Ireland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, sureiknow said: Northern Ireland is part of the UK. When the UK leaves N.I. leaves too. Or are SFIRA doing their usual threats of do what we want or our Military Wing might return to violence. Northern Ireland voted to remain. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said: I'm realising that to understand what's happening in the UK at the moment, you have to look at American politics from a few years back. When Trump was elected on a wave of populist lies and dog whistle policies, we all stood back and waited for the penny to drop......that sooner rather than later, decent people will rebel against blatant populism, and that mainstream American politicians of both parties would refuse to allow Trump's ignorance and divisive policies tear the USA apart. It hasn't happened. Moderate Republicans have fallen into line with Trump, and there are a huge amount of voters who have embraced his message and who want more of it. The USA is more divided now than at any point since the Vietnam war. And where America leads, the UK will follow. We're all waiting for Johnson and his idiotic brand of right-wing populism to fail.......because we all refuse to believe that it can possibly succeed. But what happens when/if it doesn't fail ? What happens when moderate Tories fall into line and support Johnson ? He already has the majority of UK newspapers supporting him, and there are millions in the country who WANT a right-wing populist as PM. We all keep on waiting for common-sense to kick in....in regards to Brexit, to devolution in Scotland and Northern Ireland, in future social and economic policies.....but the direction of travel to me suggests that it will not necessarily happen. We live in strange and troubled times. For Boris Johnson to succeed, he needs Brexit to succeed, including a no-deal Brexit if it comes to that. He has filled his cabinet with true believers so who can he blame if it does not work? He can try blaming the EU but if we hold all the cards, how will that work? If we come out without a deal then the following day will be spent making frantic deals all very much dictated by the EU with Nigel Farage constantly snapping "oh no - this is not the way to do it". A successful Brexit is only possible in the eyes of deluded idiots who are looking for somebody else to do it. I seriously doubt Brexit will be off the table before December and I expect it to be as much of an albatross around his neck as it was for Theresa May. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Fullerene said: For Boris Johnson to succeed, he needs Brexit to succeed, including a no-deal Brexit if it comes to that. He has filled his cabinet with true believers so who can he blame if it does not work? He can try blaming the EU but if we hold all the cards, how will that work? If we come out without a deal then the following day will be spent making frantic deals all very much dictated by the EU with Nigel Farage constantly snapping "oh no - this is not the way to do it". A successful Brexit is only possible in the eyes of deluded idiots who are looking for somebody else to do it. I seriously doubt Brexit will be off the table before December and I expect it to be as much of an albatross around his neck as it was for Theresa May. There's no way he'll force a No Deal through Parliament. No way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, pandarilla said: The EU will not concede. So then we've got a no deal brexit and as far as I can tell, no-one can predict with any certainty what that entails (either for the Irish border or the mainland). At that point, f**k knows - but at some stage he'll lose a vote of no confidence and then we've got a general election. That's when sturgeon can come into play, but again it's very difficult to predict what England would return in those circumstances. A lot of folk would vote for Boris out of a 'back to the wall' mentality. That could work well for Scottish independence. I'll help you out with the English situation - the longer this set of asset-stripping cúnts stay in power, the more their union flag-waving, take-back-controller fanbase start to see behind the curtain. More and more are experiencing the effects of the scorched-earth attitude to the North, and their attempt to finish Thatcher's job of eradicating the Working Class, using the DWP this time. If not personally, then someone they know or are related to will have needed to access our "world-leading" public services only to find that those services are now operating on fumes. It may not be possible to deliver all of Labour's manifesto promises in one term, but there's very little in there which an be said to be a bad idea (the disarmament one is the only issue I have) - most of the big ticket policies have major public support - and the current Tories have nothing to put up against such a positive programme. They show no willing to even pretend they are on the side of the people. If you recxall the fag-packet manifesto las time, their big ideas were protecting free TV Licenses (which amounted to making sure they could blame the BBC for them being rescinded) and taxing the fucking dead. While many (influenced by whatever) are still dubious about Corbyn personally* they are fed up of the current government and ready to give something else a try. Not least because it is becoming clear to a lot of people that this may be their last chance. *Four years in , and the concerted smears have amounted to laughable, evidence free slurs and little else. On the other side of the House, however the Front Bench boasts traitors, frauds, incompetents and the most insensitive, racist, misogynist, morally questionable PM** I'm aware of. **A title which, by Johnson's own standards, is illegitimate. Edited July 31, 2019 by WhiteRoseKillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: I'll help you out with the English situation - the longer this set of asset-stripping cúnts stay in power, the more their union flag-waving, take-back-controller fanbase start to see behind the curtain. More and more are experiencing the effects of the scorched-earth attitude to the North, and their attempt to finish Thatcher's job of eradicating the Working Class, using the DWP this time. If not personally, then someone they know or are related to will have needed to access our "world-leading" public services only to find that those services are now operating on fumes. It may not be possible to deliver all of Labour's manifesto promises in one term, but there's very little in there which an be said to be a bad idea (the disarmament one is the only issue I have) - most of the big ticket policies have major public support - and the current Tories have nothing to put up against such a positive programme. They show no willing to even pretend they are on the side of the people. If you recxall the fag-packet manifesto las time, their big ideas were protecting free TV Licenses (which amounted to making sure they could blame the BBC for them being rescinded) and taxing the fucking dead. While many (influenced by whatever) are still dubious about Corbyn personally* they are fed up of the current government and ready to give something else a try. Not least because it is becoming clear to a lot of people that this may be their last chance. *Four years in , and the concerted smears have amounted to laughable, evidence free slurs and little else. On the other side of the House, however the Front Bench boasts traitors, frauds, incompetents and the most insensitive, racist, misogynist, morally questionable PM** I'm aware of. **A title which, by Johnson's own standards, is illegitimate. As much as the Tories are a shower of shite, I think Corbyn & Co are well capable of fucking the UK up even more than the present incumbents. I wouldn't let the Tories push my shopping trolley while I don't even think Labour are capable of stacking the trolleys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 38 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: I'll help you out with the English situation - the longer this set of asset-stripping cúnts stay in power, the more their union flag-waving, take-back-controller fanbase start to see behind the curtain. More and more are experiencing the effects of the scorched-earth attitude to the North, and their attempt to finish Thatcher's job of eradicating the Working Class, using the DWP this time. If not personally, then someone they know or are related to will have needed to access our "world-leading" public services only to find that those services are now operating on fumes. It may not be possible to deliver all of Labour's manifesto promises in one term, but there's very little in there which an be said to be a bad idea (the disarmament one is the only issue I have) - most of the big ticket policies have major public support - and the current Tories have nothing to put up against such a positive programme. They show no willing to even pretend they are on the side of the people. If you recxall the fag-packet manifesto las time, their big ideas were protecting free TV Licenses (which amounted to making sure they could blame the BBC for them being rescinded) and taxing the fucking dead. While many (influenced by whatever) are still dubious about Corbyn personally* they are fed up of the current government and ready to give something else a try. Not least because it is becoming clear to a lot of people that this may be their last chance. *Four years in , and the concerted smears have amounted to laughable, evidence free slurs and little else. On the other side of the House, however the Front Bench boasts traitors, frauds, incompetents and the most insensitive, racist, misogynist, morally questionable PM** I'm aware of. **A title which, by Johnson's own standards, is illegitimate. Who gives a f**k mate, Labour have got f**k all to offer Scotland and treat us as just a much a colony as the Tories do. Take it to an English political forum. Labour will never win another election up here and that makes me delighted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 28 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Simon Wren Lewis writes about this a lot. For a lot of people a government whose policy choices have that been shown to have caused early deaths of more than 120000 people is somehow preferable to whatever Corbyn might do. Labour will be able to claim their share of those deaths as well as those due to Blair' foreign follies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRocketman II Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, ICTJohnboy said: There's no way he'll force a No Deal through Parliament. No way. he doesn't need to. If come 31st October there has been no extension sought/agreed and article 50 hasn't been revoked, the UK leaves the EU with no deal in place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said: I'm realising that to understand what's happening in the UK at the moment, you have to look at American politics from a few years back. When Trump was elected on a wave of populist lies and dog whistle policies, we all stood back and waited for the penny to drop......that sooner rather than later, decent people will rebel against blatant populism, and that mainstream American politicians of both parties would refuse to allow Trump's ignorance and divisive policies tear the USA apart. It hasn't happened. Moderate Republicans have fallen into line with Trump, and there are a huge amount of voters who have embraced his message and who want more of it. The USA is more divided now than at any point since the Vietnam war. And where America leads, the UK will follow. We're all waiting for Johnson and his idiotic brand of right-wing populism to fail.......because we all refuse to believe that it can possibly succeed. But what happens when/if it doesn't fail ? What happens when moderate Tories fall into line and support Johnson ? He already has the majority of UK newspapers supporting him, and there are millions in the country who WANT a right-wing populist as PM. We all keep on waiting for common-sense to kick in....in regards to Brexit, to devolution in Scotland and Northern Ireland, in future social and economic policies.....but the direction of travel to me suggests that it will not necessarily happen. We live in strange and troubled times. It's the end of the fkn world man we are witnessing the breakdown of western civilisation. It's all over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: No, those were Iraqis They're all the same to me, I voted YES and REMAIN, one reason for that was I couldn't care where folk are from or what colour or religious views they hold. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Just now, MixuFixit said: Yes yes very nice but it's distracting from the point made that it's strange so many people would prefer a government that *kills its own citizens* to Labour. It's only strange if you attribute all the blame on those left with the mess rather than those that caused the mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: What mess? Did those dead disabled people cause it? No idea, too late to ask them now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 As much as the Tories are a shower of shite, I think Corbyn & Co are well capable of fucking the UK up even more than the present incumbents. I wouldn't let the Tories push my shopping trolley while I don't even think Labour are capable of stacking the trolleys.Any chance of you giving us your reasoning? Obviously we can all see what the Tories have done,but why do you think Labour will not be an improvement - you actually think Labour would be worse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, KingRocketman II said: he doesn't need to. If come 31st October there has been no extension sought/agreed and article 50 hasn't been revoked, the UK leaves the EU with no deal in place. Exactly, I think people are missing this point. We have to leave, if they want no deal, which they do, all they need to do is not put a deal to parliament that would win a parliamentary majority and we leave with no deal by default. This is why they're rehashing all the old shite about reworking the backstop and an improved deal, they know its nonsense but it buys time to run the clock down to a no deal exit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuro Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said: There's no way he'll force a No Deal through Parliament. No way. He doesn't have to. I don't think you're quite understanding. If we don't agree a deal we leave with no deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Kuro said: He doesn't have to. I don't think you're quite understanding. If we don't agree a deal we leave with no deal. Bollox. Do you believe every lie Boris utters? If we don't agree a deal there will be a vote of no confidence in the govt followed by a GE - there would need to be an extension through that process. Leaving with No deal on Oct 31st is not going to happen. Edited July 31, 2019 by ICTJohnboy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Bollox. Do you believe every lie Boris utters? If we don't agree a deal there will be a vote of no confidence in the govt followed by a GE - there would need to be an extension through that process. Leaving with No deal on Oct 31st is not going to happen. What happens if the EU refuse that extension? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said: What happens if the EU refuse that extension? They won't. They don't want us to leave on a No Deal basis. They'll delay the process for as long as they possibly can, in the hope there will be a change of govt, and subsequently a 2nd referendum, or the revocation of Article 50. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I'd like to share your optimism. My understanding, however, is that any one (or more likely more) of the 27 could use their veto, and that would be it. No extension. I'd rather not play that game of brinkmanship. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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