The official Boris pm cluster-fuck thread

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Glasgow to Edinburgh would be an ideal choice for a hyperloop.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

8 hours ago, git-intae-thum said:

Disappointed that Scot gov are not looking at a maglev line between Inverness Aberdeen Dundee Edinburgh and Glasgow  to be honest. 

as a small wealthy European nation that is where we should be at.

Westminster should be paying the full share, based on the taxation we submit to them and the projects that we pay for in other parts of the UK.

Because they are not and they have lots of s*** in the South of England to pay for, is exactly why why we are not like any other North European country.

We are in the 21st century equivalent of the dark ages.

 

A train between Aberdeen and Edinburgh or Glasgow  that had more than 1 toilet, would be a start. 

[GTG_03]

There's no way that bridge is being built, it's just Johnson pretending that he thinks/cares about Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The only part of the country he cares about is the South East, HS2 will be from London to Birmingham and no further. 

[welshbairn]

Interesting offer from China.

https://www.building.co.uk/news/chinese-firm-offers-to-build-hs2-and-save-tens-of-billions/5104268.article

[doulikefish]

Thats no good here, no tory donors will get there share [emoji6]

Interesting offer from China.

https://www.building.co.uk/news/chinese-firm-offers-to-build-hs2-and-save-tens-of-billions/5104268.article

[welshbairn]

Apparently they would build it so much faster by building it in multiple locations simultaneously, fronting much of the costs themselves, rather than waiting for payment to gradually trickle through from the Government. Some Tory was saying it would be humiliating to have the Chinese do for us what we used to do for the Colonies and the offer must be refused.  Think they're talking about doing the whole thing from London to Manchester and Leeds in 5 years, not just to Birmingham, so mid 20s rather than minimum 2040.

Edited February 15, 2020 by welshbairn

[doulikefish]

Are they going to use there "African" model for the workers on this project?
Thats the one were they empty a few prisons ship them over and then leave them in the country the projects at?

Apparently they would build it so much faster by building it in multiple locations simultaneously, fronting much of the costs themselves, rather than waiting for payment to gradually trickle through from the Government. Some Tory was saying it would be humiliating to have the Chinese do for us what we used to do for the Colonies and the offer must be refused. [emoji38] Think they're talking about doing the whole thing from London to Manchester and Leeds in 5 years, not just to Birmingham, so mid 20s rather than minimum 2040.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Are they going to use there "African" model for the workers on this project?
Thats the one were they empty a few prisons ship them over and then leave them in the country the projects at?

I'm sure Boris would be proud to empty our proper British prisons instead.

[NotThePars]

President Xi, may I be the first to congratulate you l.

[doulikefish]

I remember the goold old days when asking the chinese for help with projects was bad

[Pet Jeden]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Interesting offer from China.

https://www.building.co.uk/news/chinese-firm-offers-to-build-hs2-and-save-tens-of-billions/5104268.article

They'd get it done all right. But there would be no independent trade union rights. Muslim workers would be kept in a prison camp. Landowners would be chucked a tenner for their compulsorily purchased land. Consultation would  amount to being told to STFU. And any critics of the project would have an unfortunate tendency to disappear (after Huawei did their patriotic duty)

This idea is insane. The UK's inability to build anything big in less than 50 years is frustrating, but some things are more important than efficiency and progress.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Pet Jeden

[welshbairn]

The 2040 completion date is about spreading the cost, nothing to do with health and safety, union rights or compensation. China has stacks of plant available, including automatic line laying equipment, after building a 15,500 mile high speed network at home, and enough cash to wait for payment on HP. It's called comparative advantage which would be daft not to exploit. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by welshbairn

[Thane of Cawdor]

Chinese labour largely constructed US railways (with some Irish involvement). Treated abominably and worked in appalling conditions whilst paid much less than Caucasians.  I'm fairly sure I read once about mass suicide by workers when use of opium was made illegal. Seemingly built 10 miles of track in 1day so that should expedite HS2.

 

 

[the jambo-rocker]

Not really. If you are prepared to spend billions on rail, then just spend a few billion more and at least optimise the transportation of people between the places where the need/demand is greatest now - not where the need/demand was greatest 150 years ago.

That would just encourage more people towards living in cities though. The whole point of trying to reverse some of the beeching cuts is to bring rail lines and more public transport to towns and villages on the outside and encourage people to live there.

For example, a rail line (the line is there, the tracks just need relaid) put back in from the Longniddry to Haddington would make huge differences to public transport being a more feasible option to a town that is building lots of extra houses, but putting no more extended roads, leading to piling the extra traffic coming from said town and many others in East Lothian through the eye of a needle into Edinburgh or via Hermiston build f**k tons more.

Apply example to hundreds of towns on the outside of cities like Aberdeen, Leeds, your Sheffield's and already they become better catchment areas to live in for a snip of the price that's being piled into cities that are getting more than enough public transport as it is without HS2 coming into it.

[Pet Jeden]

24 minutes ago, the jambo-rocker said:

That would just encourage more people towards living in cities though. The whole point of trying to reverse some of the beeching cuts is to bring rail lines and more public transport to towns and villages on the outside and encourage people to live there.

For example, a rail line (the line is there, the tracks just need relaid) put back in from the Longniddry to Haddington would make huge differences to public transport being a more feasible option to a town that is building lots of extra houses, but putting no more extended roads, leading to piling the extra traffic coming from said town and many others in East Lothian through the eye of a needle into Edinburgh or via Hermiston build f**k tons more.

Apply example to hundreds of towns on the outside of cities like Aberdeen, Leeds, your Sheffield's and already they become better catchment areas to live in for a snip of the price that's being piled into cities that are getting more than enough public transport as it is without HS2 coming into it.

Fair point - I'm probably thinking of it too much from a city point of view. But I still think the starting point should be where is a line needed. And Haddington linking in to the East Lothian Line sounds sensible  - whether or not there are the remnants of a Victorian line remaining. Not sure how much cheaper it is to patch up an old line and buy out the  post-1963 bungalows that have been built on it, than just to start from scratch.

[Thane of Cawdor]

Marina Hyde with another excellent, withering dissection of Boris, Dom and the accretions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/14/dominic-cummings-cabinet-reshuffle

[Sergeant Wilson]

HS2 protesters might find Chinese "contractors" have different methods from ours.

[Kneal Down Caster]

I read somewhere, from someone, that has followed Boris’ career that he jumps on the train that works for Boris. Now he is in no 10 I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes all out (not typical Tory) and builds himself a legacy. Basically gets rid of all the Tory dissenters and goes full hung ho what Boris wants. Agreeing to hs2 is deciding that filling pot holes is counter productive let’s just rip up the road and fix it properly. I hate to say it but I think the blundering beach whale could surprise us. (As long as it’s for 7 years until my retirement)

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

11 hours ago, Kneal Down Caster said:

I read somewhere, from someone, that has followed Boris’ career that he jumps on the train that works for Boris. Now he is in no 10 I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes all out (not typical Tory) and builds himself a legacy. Basically gets rid of all the Tory dissenters and goes full hung ho what Boris wants. Agreeing to hs2 is deciding that filling pot holes is counter productive let’s just rip up the road and fix it properly. I hate to say it but I think the blundering beach whale could surprise us. (As long as it’s for 7 years until my retirement)

I suspect this is closer to the truth than many would like to admit.

Johnson has the perfect storm in his favour.....huge majority, pathetic opposition, a legacy of weak, insipid Tory leaders, and a chance to loosen the purse strings after a decade of unnecessary austerity. 

He's always been a politician who cares nothing about the details, and is obsessed with 'big sky thinking' and massive (often unrealistic) projects. 

This budget is the perfect chance for him to make the populist statement that he so craves, so expect the magic money tree to scatter cash to the 4 corners of the country. 

All of it is simply going to harden his support, and given that he has 70% of the UK press on his side writing positive propaganda every single day, it's hard to see how he's going to be brought to his knees at any point in the short to medium term.

In fact, I'd say the only real danger to Johnson's complete grip on power will come from growing dissent within the Tory party stemming from a dislike of Cummings. 

[Enigma]

That would just encourage more people towards living in cities though. The whole point of trying to reverse some of the beeching cuts is to bring rail lines and more public transport to towns and villages on the outside and encourage people to live there.

For example, a rail line (the line is there, the tracks just need relaid) put back in from the Longniddry to Haddington would make huge differences to public transport being a more feasible option to a town that is building lots of extra houses, but putting no more extended roads, leading to piling the extra traffic coming from said town and many others in East Lothian through the eye of a needle into Edinburgh or via Hermiston build f**k tons more.

Apply example to hundreds of towns on the outside of cities like Aberdeen, Leeds, your Sheffield's and already they become better catchment areas to live in for a snip of the price that's being piled into cities that are getting more than enough public transport as it is without HS2 coming into it.

There’s a few issues to overcome with the Haddington rail line. Unless I’m mistaken you need to demolish and rebuild a section of the A1 as the bridge section over the old line isn’t suitable, mind you this was done on the Edinburgh City Bypass for the Borders Railway. You then have the issue of capacity at Waverley and on the East Coast line itself, would you take trains away from North Berwick, Dunbar etc.