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The official Boris pm cluster-fuck thread


pandarilla

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It occurred to me that Starmer should make a point of not specifically going after Johnson at PMQs, but rather at the various cabinet colleagues conspicuous by their absence of support.

Treat Johnson for what he is: a total lame duck. He hasn't been forced out because none of the half dozen or so who would have his job are ready to move. So the country continues to be debased by Johnson to serve Conservative party interests.

So, get attacking them. Get in the early hits that whoever comes next is starting outside of the country's best interests, at the same time, make Johnson look small. Create the impression he is finished.

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11 minutes ago, renton said:

It occurred to me that Starmer should make a point of not specifically going after Johnson at PMQs, but rather at the various cabinet colleagues conspicuous by their absence of support.

Treat Johnson for what he is: a total lame duck. He hasn't been forced out because none of the half dozen or so who would have his job are ready to move. So the country continues to be debased by Johnson to serve Conservative party interests.

So, get attacking them. Get in the early hits that whoever comes next is starting outside of the country's best interests, at the same time, make Johnson look small. Create the impression he is finished.

I reckon it’s in Starmer’s interest for this to be dragged out for as long as possible.

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19 minutes ago, renton said:

It occurred to me that Starmer should make a point of not specifically going after Johnson at PMQs, but rather at the various cabinet colleagues conspicuous by their absence of support.

Treat Johnson for what he is: a total lame duck. He hasn't been forced out because none of the half dozen or so who would have his job are ready to move. So the country continues to be debased by Johnson to serve Conservative party interests.

So, get attacking them. Get in the early hits that whoever comes next is starting outside of the country's best interests, at the same time, make Johnson look small. Create the impression he is finished.

As Granny said, why would Starmer want Johnson removed? The economy is only going to get worse over the next couple of years, a new leader could just blame it all on Johnson and claim he/she's the best person to get us out of his mess, while praising his vaccine stuff and getting us out of Europe etc.

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13 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

As Granny said, why would Starmer want Johnson removed? The economy is only going to get worse over the next couple of years, a new leader could just blame it all on Johnson and claim he/she's the best person to get us out of his mess, while praising his vaccine stuff and getting us out of Europe etc.

He's going at some point. Even if he survives this, the party will wait until its convenient to get him out before the next election on a timescale of their choosing.

Better for Labour that he goes out causing as much damage to the Tories on the way. Ultimately it's not a blank pay cheque for Labour to use for years, they might have weeks or even a month or two of this but the danger is it gets normalised, and Johnson, while reviled is cuaterised by his party pending his replacement. I just think Labour need to be attacking the whole system behind Johnson, rather than let him become the  lamb for all the Tories issues.

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1 minute ago, renton said:

He's going at some point. Even if he survives this, the party will wait until its convenient to get him out before the next election on a timescale of their choosing.

Better for Labour that he goes out causing as much damage to the Tories on the way. Ultimately it's not a blank pay cheque for Labour to use for years, they might have weeks or even a month or two of this but the danger is it gets normalised, and Johnson, while reviled is cuaterised by his party pending his replacement. I just think Labour need to be attacking the whole system behind Johnson, rather than let him become the  lamb for all the Tories issues.

You're probably right, but I don't want the next PM coming out of it all squeaky clean and all the dirty laundry dissolved in acid. Sunak in particular is already playing that game, disappearing to Cornwall and pretending as Chancellor that the NI rise had nothing to do with him.

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3 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Finally the met bizzys are going to investigate the partying 

  Does the met investigating the parties now mean that the Sue Gray report is paused?

Just as she was about to report!

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Who'd have thought that a man with a history of lying, cheating and incompetence would be a lying, cheating, incompetent prime minister? Staggering stuff.

Anyway, this will drag out for another few weeks, Russia will invade Ukraine and Boris will have a Falklands Moment and save his job.

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9 minutes ago, btb said:

  Does the met investigating the parties now mean that the Sue Gray report is paused?

Just as she was about to report!

Amazingly enough it means Gray cannot publish her report 🤣

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30 minutes ago, btb said:

  Does the met investigating the parties now mean that the Sue Gray report is paused?

Just as she was about to report!

Yes, cannot be published, which is a pain, but probably correct. Does pose the question though as to why they did not investigate previously? Is a civil servant really a better investigator than the police?

If I was being cynical and conspiracy theorist, I'd say it is incredibly convenient the met announce this just days before the report comes out, causing a delay and by the time the report does cone out, they will hope the news cycle has moved on..... Boris will be on the phone to Putin as we speak. 

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11 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

Yes, cannot be published, which is a pain, but probably correct. Does pose the question though as to why they did not investigate previously? Is a civil servant really a better investigator than the police?

If I was being cynical and conspiracy theorist, I'd say it is incredibly convenient the met announce this just days before the report comes out, causing a delay and by the time the report does cone out, they will hope the news cycle has moved on..... Boris will be on the phone to Putin as we speak. 

In the Met's case almost certainly.

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26 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

Yes, cannot be published, which is a pain, but probably correct. Does pose the question though as to why they did not investigate previously? Is a civil servant really a better investigator than the police?

If I was being cynical and conspiracy theorist, I'd say it is incredibly convenient the met announce this just days before the report comes out, causing a delay and by the time the report does cone out, they will hope the news cycle has moved on..... Boris will be on the phone to Putin as we speak. 

Another thought on that - maybe during the investigation information came to Gray's attention that she felt HAD TO be passed on to the Met. If a civil servant comes into possession of information that on the face of it suggests criminal activity, and that civil servant does not refer it to the police, they'd probably be accused of participating in a cover up. 

Hasn't she just had written evidence from Mr Cummings? 🤔 Could these recent events be related? (Dunno when the Met decided to investigate but it would be interesting to find out. 

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7 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Another thought on that - maybe during the investigation information came to Gray's attention that she felt HAD TO be passed on to the Met. If a civil servant comes into possession of information that on the face of it suggests criminal activity, and that civil servant does not refer it to the police, they'd probably be accused of participating in a cover up. 

Hasn't she just had written evidence from Mr Cummings? 🤔 Could these recent events be related? (Dunno when the Met decided to investigate but it would be interesting to find out. 

Yes, you are absolutely right, but surely the met should have investigated in the first place and then they would have uncovered the evidence that is clearly there. Its one thing withholding evidence or lying to a civil servant it's a completely different level doing so to the police.

It will absolutely be that SG has uncovered clear evidence of law breaking. Much easier to pass on written evidence from cummings that what he says verbally. She probably has access to CCTV too. 

If you take a second and step back and realise that we currently have a government being investigated by the police, ministers resigning over corruption and racism allegations and that is just this week alone. It is utterly mental. We would almost expect it from some rouge states, but the UK? Credibility has never been lower globally. 

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Call my cynical but Lady Cressida going for an investigation that delays Sue Grays report and Ukraine being in the news just now even though the Russians have had the troops massing on the border since late November is in now way related 😉

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10 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

Yes, you are absolutely right, but surely the met should have investigated in the first place and then they would have uncovered the evidence that is clearly there. Its one thing withholding evidence or lying to a civil servant it's a completely different level doing so to the police.

It will absolutely be that SG has uncovered clear evidence of law breaking. Much easier to pass on written evidence from cummings that what he says verbally. She probably has access to CCTV too. 

If you take a second and step back and realise that we currently have a government being investigated by the police, ministers resigning over corruption and racism allegations and that is just this week alone. It is utterly mental. We would almost expect it from some rouge states, but the UK? Credibility has never been lower globally. 

I agree. I suspect that the Met were able to body-swerve investigation by saying all they had (maybe) until recently was gossip and tittle tattle.  You're right, it would be interesting to know what flipped the switch from "no" to "yes". 

The utter shambles at Westminster makes Trump's Presidency look like a masterclasses in government propriety. 

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