The official Boris pm cluster-fuck thread

[BFTD]

8 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

Given that Labour are a bit hopeless the Tories spunking money to prevent voter fraud in a General Election that they're bound to win easily anyway seems a bit daft.

Unless they think the nasty Nats are benefitting from voter fraud...

They aren't thinking about the next election. They're looking ahead ten, fifteen years, when people are finally heart sick of them and starting to look for something, anything to vote for in their place. If they can stop enough hardened non-Tory voters from getting to the polls, it might be the difference between losing power and staying in office in perpetuity.

To be fair, they're only pinching ideas from the US Republicans' desperate attempts to pervert democracy as their support slowly deteriorates. There doesn't appear to be an inventive brain among them.

[BigDoddyKane]

The tories may be under estimating the potential that shortage of goods will have, they arent going to be able to solve that as they are completely incompetent and probably presumed in some deluded way the market would in a couple years solve it. It wont either.

If the shortage of goods really starts to impact peoples lives widely in England then its very likely that they will vote the tories out 

[BFTD]

2 hours ago, BigDoddyKane said:

The tories may be under estimating the potential that shortage of goods will have, they arent going to be able to solve that as they are completely incompetent and probably presumed in some deluded way the market would in a couple years solve it. It wont either.

If the shortage of goods really starts to impact peoples lives widely in England then its very likely that they will vote the tories out 

They'll be working behind the scenes to make sure that their homelands are prioritised. You can already see people online giving it, "ooh, shortage of Mars Bars at Asda, is it? Boo hoo. Everything's fine here".

I don't think Alloa's particularly badly effected yet, but I've already got used to making multiple trips to the supermarket during the week in order to pick up all the staples when they have them.

[welshbairn]

My local Scotmid has been out of tonic water for a few weeks, the local G+T set will be rioting in the streets any minute.

[Clown Job]

2 hours ago, BigDoddyKane said:

If the shortage of goods really starts to impact peoples lives widely in England then its very likely that they will vote the tories out 

Nah, they’ll just keeping blaming the EU and talk about a wartime spirit 

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, BFTD said:

They'll be working behind the scenes to make sure that their homelands are prioritised. You can already see people online giving it, "ooh, shortage of Mars Bars at Asda, is it? Boo hoo. Everything's fine here".

I don't think Alloa's particularly badly effected yet, but I've already got used to making multiple trips to the supermarket during the week in order to pick up all the staples when they have them.

Aye, you know it’s bad when office supplies run short too.

[Big Rider]

There’s nae frozen peas at oor Tesco. Who takes the blame for this?

[jakedee]

There’s nae frozen peas at oor Tesco. Who takes the blame for this?

The Remoaners obviously, for not embracing brexit.

[Big Rider]

12 hours ago, jakedee said:

15 hours ago, Big Rider said:

There’s nae frozen peas at oor Tesco. Who takes the blame for this?

The Remoaners obviously, for not embracing brexit.

Oh dear,  what am i like? A daft remainer. I should really manage my expectations lower now.
Who eats peas anyway? Nasty foreigns that’s who.

[Suspect Device]

22 hours ago, Big Rider said:

Oh dear,  what am i like? A daft remainer. I should really manage my expectations lower now.
Who eats peas anyway? Nasty foreigns that’s who.

Grow your own. Where's your bulldog spirit?

 

That's a strange looking pea.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Suspect Device

[Soapy FFC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58469872

If, as it says in this report, the planned announcement on increasing the NI rate is to fund social care in England, will the increased NI rates apply just to England?

 

 

[Baxter Parp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58469872
If, as it says in this report, the planned announcement on increasing the NI rate is to fund social care in England, will the increased NI rates apply just to England?
 
 

Nope.

[Suspect Device]

I'll be interested how that will work with our government in charge of income tax bands but Westminster in charge of NICs. Will cause a lot more complications particularly if it's perceived that the increase isn't fully passed on through Barnett.

 

Even apart from that the increase in NICs instead of income tax is totally wrong imo. Again clobbering the younger and poorer and protecting the old and better off.

[RiG]

Embarrassing. ETA: May be from 2019 but it's still pathetic.

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by RiG

[Aladdin]

1 hour ago, Suspect Device said:

I'll be interested how that will work with our government in charge of income tax bands but Westminster in charge of NICs. Will cause a lot more complications particularly if it's perceived that the increase isn't fully passed on through Barnett.

 

Even apart from that the increase in NICs instead of income tax is totally wrong imo. Again clobbering the younger and poorer and protecting the old and better off.

Increasing NIC contributions is, in practice, the worst way for the Tories to break their manifesto commitments as it hits their red wall seats.

They can't go anywhere near a wealth tax and capital gains increases which would both be fairer than that suggested.  It's great seeing them between a rock and a hard place.

[Suspect Device]

They seem to be running with it under the assumption that the public don't see it as a tax increase. In reality it's a tax increase targeted at the wrong fucking people.

Edit: For full disclosure, a NIC's increase will not affect me but I still think it's wrong.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Suspect Device

[Salt n Vinegar]

I think there's also a potential for misunderstanding the views of the retired.  Yeah, great, the retired wouldn't be affected by the N.I. increase (unless if course they extend it to 'the retired'), but many/most of the retired will have kids! 

Our two sons work. I don't want them to be paying even more in taxes while others (like me) escape any of the additional funding requirements for services.  

Wonder how the UK Government will deal with the 'consequentials' issue? 

[Michael W]

3 hours ago, Suspect Device said:

I'll be interested how that will work with our government in charge of income tax bands but Westminster in charge of NICs. Will cause a lot more complications particularly if it's perceived that the increase isn't fully passed on through Barnett.

 

Even apart from that the increase in NICs instead of income tax is totally wrong imo. Again clobbering the younger and poorer and protecting the old and better off.

Increasing income tax would hit people only in England and (I think) Northern Ireland. Or course there would be Barnett consequentials for that so the money raised would also see an apportionment go to Scotland and Wales, which isn't really fair either tbh. A National Insurance increase would see everyone pay more and the money apportioned accordingly, but as pointed out it affects the less well off and has the double whammy of again punishing the working age population to pay for pensioners. It is not acceptable. 

The difficulty is that NI was supposed to pay for pensions and also the NHS, and people are happy to pay for those. Of course there is in reality no segregated pot, but the perception is that NI is for the good things and income tax is the stuff to pay for everything that people don't like, whether that be overseas aid, non-pensions welfare and defence. There's a weird psychological divide there so NI on the face of it is the one people might be more willing to pay, especially after the NHS idolatry early in the pandemic and various storms kicked up about NHS funding. Nevertheless it's a bad policy. 

The uncomfortable truth is that Theresa May's proposals would probably have largely solved this problem. However, this caused widespread outrage as people wouldn't be able to just pass their house to their kids, was dubbed "the dementia tax" and saw a double-digit poll lead evaporate. No surprises, then, that alternatives are needed and that they involve tax rises targeted at the wider population. These are usually quite popular provided that it will be someone else paying it, which is when the fun really starts. Social care has been ignored because the reality is that the means of funding it will piss off a lot of people, and so May thought she'd have a go at it when in an apparently unassailable position. It hugely backfired. 

Incidentally, raising NI to pay for social care could also just as accurately be dubbed a "dementia tax", it's just that the working age population are all required to pay it, most probably for a service that won't exist when they reach their 80s. A large chunk of this money needed can probably be raised by scrapping the pensions triple lock. Other than that, I'd end the exemption of paying employees NI once an individual has reached retirement age. See where that gets us. 

Invariably something will need to be done with income tax to pay for this, but beyond fully devolving these and removing them from Barnett, I don't see how that could be deemed fair either. At any rate, employee NI increasing is not the answer. How about increasing employer NI instead? 

[Soapy FFC]

There is always a pressure from some to increase inheritance tax to pay for everything. In my mind that would never work, as inheritance tax only applies to the casually wealthy (i.e. by virtue of a modest house and pension pot) and the people not aware of proper financial planning (i.e. tax avoidance). The seriously wealthy have never been bothered by IH as they always have ways and means to avoid it, rightly or wrongly. Just look at the amount of large country houses and estates that have been in the same family for generations. If that was a ‘normal’ family, IH would probably wiped out the value of the home years ago.

If we really want to raise more money, the govt should make a proper effort to crack down on gross avoidance/evasion of existing taxes, so it’s just not the less well off that pay all their taxes.

[Aladdin]

Cracking down on tax avoidance by the wealthy is obviously needed.

It also has to be recognised that our population has changed and health and social care needs have increased, costing more.  A combination of more progressive taxation/NI increases, a wealth tax and abolition of the triple lock on pensions (perhaps leaving it linked to CPI inflation rates) are likely needed.