The official Boris pm cluster-fuck thread

[Tibbermoresaint]

10 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

A combination of the following -

Resignalling to increase capacity and line speeds. 

Build new freight only lines/loops (much cheaper) to free up space for passenger trains on existing lines.

Reinstate double tracks in areas that were singled under British Rail.

Add more tracks where space allows in congested areas. This is already happening in some areas, e.g. around Rugby. 

Electrify diesel lines to enable electric trains to use them.

Put in more passing loops to allow faster trains to overtake slower, stopping trains.

Put in longer platforms and increase train length where space allows. Johnson did this on London commuter routes.

 

 

We can do this as well as build HS2.

[Bishop Briggs]

5 hours ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

We can do this as well as build HS2.

Of course but HS2 is not needed. It's Cameron's vanity project. Osborne's vanity project is the Northern Powerhouse.

Major transport infrastructure projects should deliver real value for money and benefits for all passengers. £ billions of taxpayers' money should not be wasted on politicians' ego trips.

The HS2 passenger and revenue forecasts are very optimistic to put it politely. There are much better ways of spending £56 billion than wasting it on HS2.

[Bishop Briggs]

17 hours ago, Rowan said:

Anyone else read Private Eye? The shambles of the garden bridge means he should never be let loose on.........well anything more than £2 pocket money.

That was nothing compared to the shambles of the Olympic Stadium.  Hundreds of millions were spent on the conversion after the Olympics. 

West Ham are renting it for a pittance whilst the taxpayers are paying for maintenance and security. 

The useless Khan is equally bad. He's wasting £ millions on loads of staff and other pet projects. 

[Tibbermoresaint]

9 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Of course but HS2 is not needed. It's Cameron's vanity project. Osborne's vanity project is the Northern Powerhouse.

Major transport infrastructure projects should deliver real value for money and benefits for all passengers. £ billions of taxpayers' money should not be wasted on politicians' ego trips.

The HS2 passenger and revenue forecasts are very optimistic to put it politely. There are much better ways of spending £56 billion than wasting it on HS2.

HS2 is needed. We're decades behind our contemporaries in terms of high speed rail. We need the step-change in capacity that only HSR can provide.

We also need UKG to commit, or not, to HS2 to the border asap. Then and only then can the Scottish Government make its own decisions about HSR.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Tibbermoresaint
Spelling

[Bishop Briggs]

10 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

HS2 is needed. We're decades behind our contemporaries in terms of high speed rail. We need the step-change in capacity that only HSR can provide.

We also need UKG to commit, or not, to HS2 to the border asap. Then and only then can the Scottish Government make its own decisions about HSR.

HS2 is an expensive waste of money - https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-how-does-hs2-compare-to-other-bullet-trains.

"When HS2 was first given the green light in 2012, the government said they expected it to cost £32.7bn. But that figure has now shot up to £55.7bn.

Officials say the increase down to inflation and contingency funds to cover any unexpected costs. But the project is facing cost and time pressures. In fact, last year the National Audit Office said there was only a 60 per cent chance that the first phase of the HS2 would be completed on time.

When both phases of the project are complete, the track will cover 531km stretching from London up to Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and other cities. This means the total cost is equivalent to £104.8m per kilometre.

By contrast, the most expensive high-speed line in France was the LGV Méditerranée which opened in 2001. That covered a distance of 250km with a total cost of just £16.9m per kilometre. That makes Britain’s HS2 project around six times more expensive."

 

How would an independent Scottish government invest in HSR? And how much could it afford to invest? 

[Tibbermoresaint]

16 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

HS2 is an expensive waste of money - https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-how-does-hs2-compare-to-other-bullet-trains.

"When HS2 was first given the green light in 2012, the government said they expected it to cost £32.7bn. But that figure has now shot up to £55.7bn.

Officials say the increase down to inflation and contingency funds to cover any unexpected costs. But the project is facing cost and time pressures. In fact, last year the National Audit Office said there was only a 60 per cent chance that the first phase of the HS2 would be completed on time.

When both phases of the project are complete, the track will cover 531km stretching from London up to Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds and other cities. This means the total cost is equivalent to £104.8m per kilometre.

By contrast, the most expensive high-speed line in France was the LGV Méditerranée which opened in 2001. That covered a distance of 250km with a total cost of just £16.9m per kilometre. That makes Britain’s HS2 project around six times more expensive."

 

How would an independent Scottish government invest in HSR? And how much could it afford to invest? 

Sure it's expensive but it's necessary. Roughly 3m people fly between Edinburgh alone and London each year. Get half of them on a train and that's a lot of revenue and a lot of emissions saved. And that's before you consider Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds etc.

Transport is devolved so the Scottish Government would be responsible for building from the border to Edinburgh and Glasgow. Cost? Who knows but I've seen figures of £5bn. A lot of money but eminently affordable.

4 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

It's 50bil over 20 years though right?

Nearer 40 years.

[Tibbermoresaint]

2 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Right so nothing to get remotely bothered about. Mon eh trains

I wonder how many people know or care that the budget for dualling the A9 is £3bn.

[Bishop Briggs]

19 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Sure it's expensive but it's necessary. Roughly 3m people fly between Edinburgh alone and London each year. Get half of them on a train and that's a lot of revenue and a lot of emissions saved. And that's before you consider Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds etc.

Transport is devolved so the Scottish Government would be responsible for building from the border to Edinburgh and Glasgow. Cost? Who knows but I've seen figures of £5bn. A lot of money but eminently affordable.

Nearer 40 years.

But you won't get £1.5 million air passengers to switch. Many are flying on to foreign destinations. 

Take a look at the proposed HS2 fares too. They will be high to recoup the massive capital cost.  Air  fares (even with the air passenger duty that the SNP wants to abolish) will often be cheaper.

Do you support the abolition of air passenger duty? Can you give an example of a new high speed train halving air passenger volumes on a competitive route?

[Tibbermoresaint]

3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

But you won't get £1.5 million air passengers to switch. Many are flying on to foreign destinations. 

Take a look at the proposed HS2 fares too. They will be high to recoup the massive capital cost.  Air  fares (even with the air passenger duty that the SNP wants to abolish) will often be cheaper.

Do you support the abolition of air passenger duty? Can you give an example of a new high speed train halving air passenger volumes on a competitive route?

High Speed rail fares will be expensive. And rightly so. But I don't see why rail fares alone should pay for the capital costs. After all it's free to travel on the M1.

APD I'm comfortable with. Flying has a cost and if I fly I'm happy to pay that cost.

Eurostar to Paris is the obvious answer to your final question. London-Paris used to be the busiest international air route in the world. Now it barely exists.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

On 28/07/2019 at 00:46, Rowan said:

Anyone else read Private Eye? The shambles of the garden bridge means he should never be let loose on.........well anything more than £2 pocket money.

Not just the garden bridge - which Even Nat Treas Joanna Lumley couldn't help sell  -  there's also the water cannon which, apart from being illegal in the first place, were sold basically for scrap once storage costs were factored in. Police stations not just closing, but being sold to developers to turn into "executive apartments". Same with Fire stations, with the additional "f**k off" in open forum when challenged. He didn't exactly leave Khan with a superb, on-time project in Crossrail. His cable car currently transports very few - after having hoovered up 24m of public cash Johnson promised would never be used. God alone knows what the Boris Island project cost.

Ah, but! I hear the cry. What about the bikes, and the olympics? Well, Livingstone did all the work to implement the bikes. Summing up Johnson in a nutshell, he came into office, claimed credit for the project, and even pushed the naming after himself. As fo the Olympics, they were awarded to London under a New Labour Government, and a Labour Mayor. Does anyone really believe that cúnt ordered up an opening ceremony centred on the NHS?

Oh, and that stadium. West Ham will pay 2.5m a year in rent over 99 years (or half if they get relegated - imagine going to your landlord and asking for your rent to be halfed because you were demoted at work). Before they moved in, conversion and upgrading was carried out - to the tune of 272m, of which the Happy Hammers contributed.... (drum roll)

15m. Anybody want to guess who paid the rest? Mind, it's important to all of us to have a massive stadium in London.

So basically they've got what should be a Public Facility on an HP agreement over the next century.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

On 27/07/2019 at 22:41, ICTJohnboy said:

 

I hear it all the time here in NW England and from people who have voted Labour all their days.

It really  is depressing.

I know this is a continuing theme with you, mate, and I agree it is depressing. Interestingly, though, when I engage such "life-long labour" voters, many of them seem to have some kind of amnesia which prevenyts them remembering which candidates they did vote for, whether they wer elected and even, in extreme cases, where the polling stations are.

[RH33]

Yeah. It wasn’t an exhaustive list, was just one that came to mind!

[ICTJohnboy]

26 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

I know this is a continuing theme with you, mate, and I agree it is depressing. Interestingly, though, when I engage such "life-long labour" voters, many of them seem to have some kind of amnesia which prevenyts them remembering which candidates they did vote for, whether they were elected and even, in extreme cases, where the polling stations are.

Or whether they actually voted!

I still find it astonishing I seem to hear nothing other than what a good bloke BJ is and how he's the man who is, and who will gets things done.

What is it about his personality that seems to have such a broad appeal in England, and yet is detested in Scotland?

Or is that the case? Are there any born and bred Scots up there who actually like, or admire the guy?

[welshbairn]

47 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Not just the garden bridge - which Even Nat Treas Joanna Lumley couldn't help sell  -  there's also the water cannon which, apart from being illegal in the first place, were sold basically for scrap once storage costs were factored in. Police stations not just closing, but being sold to developers to turn into "executive apartments". Same with Fire stations, with the additional "f**k off" in open forum when challenged. He didn't exactly leave Khan with a superb, on-time project in Crossrail. His cable car currently transports very few - after having hoovered up 24m of public cash Johnson promised would never be used. God alone knows what the Boris Island project cost.

Ah, but! I hear the cry. What about the bikes, and the olympics? Well, Livingstone did all the work to implement the bikes. Summing up Johnson in a nutshell, he came into office, claimed credit for the project, and even pushed the naming after himself. As fo the Olympics, they were awarded to London under a New Labour Government, and a Labour Mayor. Does anyone really believe that cúnt ordered up an opening ceremony centred on the NHS?

Oh, and that stadium. West Ham will pay 2.5m a year in rent over 99 years (or half if they get relegated - imagine going to your landlord and asking for your rent to be halfed because you were demoted at work). Before they moved in, conversion and upgrading was carried out - to the tune of 272m, of which the Happy Hammers contributed.... (drum roll)

15m. Anybody want to guess who paid the rest? Mind, it's important to all of us to have a massive stadium in London.

So basically they've got what should be a Public Facility on an HP agreement over the next century.

Another thing is his constantly bragging about bringing the crime rate down in London, when he had next to nothing to do with it, and when the fall was significantly more outside London than within it.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

 

So basically they've got what should be a Public Facility on an HP agreement over the next century.

An incredible deal for arch Tories Gold, Sullivan and Bradley.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Or whether they actually voted!

I still find it astonishing I seem to hear nothing other than what a good bloke BJ is and how he's the man who is, and who will gets things done.

What is it about his personality that seems to have such a broad appeal in England, and yet is detested in Scotland?

Or is that the case? Are there any born and bred Scots up there who actually like, or admire the guy?

We are not generally as gullible as a nation and as such most of us can see right through him.

He plays the part of the dim witted buffoon very well, however he's far from stupid and is actually the one who's playing people rather than the other way around.

Rather than BJ, it's more his chamber of horrors which worries me, with disgusting characters such as Pritel, Javid, Raab & Williamson (to name but a few) who will all be trying to outdo each other to see who can become the biggest clusterfcuk.

Still, if nothing else it should be entertaining, in some sort of sick and twisted masochistic way................

[J_Stewart]

34 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

We are not generally as gullible as a nation and as such most of us can see right through him.

He plays the part of the dim witted buffoon very well, however he's far from stupid and is actually the one who's playing people rather than the other way around.

Rather than BJ, it's more his chamber of horrors which worries me, with disgusting characters such as Pritel, Javid, Raab & Williamson (to name but a few) who will all be trying to outdo each other to see who can become the biggest clusterfcuk.

Still, if nothing else it should be entertaining, in some sort of sick and twisted masochistic way................

People voted for Brexit after seeing a slogan on a bus, and being told the EU was at 'breaking point' by Farage's Nazi poster. As a nation, the UK is gullible as f**k.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

People voted for Brexit after seeing a slogan on a bus, and being told the EU was at 'breaking point' by Farage's Nazi poster. As a nation, the UK is gullible as f**k.

I was using "we" as in Scotland.

I see us as a nation even if some others don't.

[J_Stewart]

Just now, WATTOO said:

I was using "we" as in Scotland.

I see us as a nation even if some others don't.

In that case, we voted No to Independence by 55% after listening to lie after lie. Not only are we as a nation gullible as f**k, we're also massive shitebags.

[Mastermind]

In that case, we voted No to Independence by 55% after listening to lie after lie. Not only are we as a nation gullible as f**k, we're also massive shitebags.

There’s a counter-argument there that the minority Nationalists are a gullible bunch - just because the SNP promise everything will be a shortbread-tin tartan paradise after independence the desperate, gullible Nats will follow on.

Luckily the sensible majority saw there was no evidence of this and got them telt.