Indyref2 -alternative

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, MixuFixit said:

Much as I'd like to escape brexit etc. it is going to be necessary for the UK to understand starkly what the consequences of its negotiating tactics will be, in order to correct it's international diplomatic attitude, before Scottish independence will be treated as seriously as it should be.

Scottish independence is only desired by a minority of Scotland's electorate, thank f**k, so let's not have the tail wagging the dog.

Also, let's not have The Natters regarding their independence nirvana as a single-stage process.  The rhetoric is for an independent Scotland at the heart of The EU.  This involves two stages:  Decoupling from rUK and acceding to the EU.  The latter is not Scotland's to control.

What the Indyref2 zealots have to justify to the electorate is a. a decoupling process and b. an accession process and there's not a hope in hell of that happening over the next 10 years.

[ICTJohnboy]

3 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Not shitebaggery just being sensible. Even if you think you can win a battle you don’t just go steaming in with no plan.

If Brexit is a total disaster then I’m sure that independence could be an option but I can’t see it being on the table and also the other thing is that the majority of Scotland just doesn’t want it on the table at the moment.

The SNP will take a major hit in the next election anyway.

 

1 minute ago, Jambomo said:

 

No, Brexit will cause financial chaos. You aren’t getting two lots of chaos, chaos is simply that - chaos.

Independence and working with the EU would IMO, actually lessen the chaos because there will be the option of some economic stability and assistance. We will get nothing of the sort from Westminster whether we remain with them or not, look how they behave towards Scotland just now, total derision.

 

 

Brexit might not happen. Just because BJ has pledged that we will leave the EU on October 31st, deal or no deal, does not necessarily mean it's now a foregone conclusion.

There's a sizeable number in Westminster with enough clout to completely block that scenario.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

We receive more per head than the rest of the UK but still have managed to have a larger deficit than the rest of the UK. Four times as much.
The oil revenue slumped and if we had have went independent then it would have been very dodgy indeed.
Take a look around the SNP by freezing council tax have actually done more harm than good. Free prescriptions and university fees. Who is going to pay for all this? What exactly will change in an independent Scotland? It is possible that we could become a backdoor into England for trade if they leave the EU and we stay. Conversely we will be independent of our largest trading partner.
The UK is skint and leaving it doesn’t

Ask yourself this. If we are such a terrible burden on England/Wales, if they subsidise us so much, if someone else pays for our free prescriptions/university, then why aren’t they applying the same logic they did with the brexit bus? Why hasn’t Boris, a man who absolutely detests Scotland and isn’t shy about it brought out a new bus ‘we send £... to Scotland why not spend it on the English NHS’? Because racism/xenophobia aside thats the populist argument isnt it? I have never had an answer to that question from a unionist. If a group of people who hate ‘scroungers’ and foreigners so vehemently truly, absolutely believe that then why keep ‘funding Scotland’ dont tell me its because ‘its nice to be British’ or whatever because they just perceive Britishness as Englishness.

[ICTJohnboy]

8 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Scottish independence is only desired by a minority of Scotland's electorate, thank f**k, so let's not have the tail wagging the dog.

Also, let's not have The Natters regarding their independence nirvana as a single-stage process.  The rhetoric is for an independent Scotland at the heart of The EU.  This involves two stages:  Decoupling from rUK and acceding to the EU.  The latter is not Scotland's to control.

What the Indyref2 zealots have to justify to the electorate is a. a decoupling process and b. an accession process and there's not a hope in hell of that happening over the next 10 years.

 

Don't you read the Daily Ranger, Kinc?

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/independent-scotland-would-welcomed-eu-16176489

[Dan Steele]

25 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

the only reason they are in power was due to the total ineptitude of Labour and as such it was a protest vote.

Well it's been quite the extended protest.

 

25 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Look at the mess of brexit. It’s not going to be easy.

But is it a mess because a country is leaving? Did the countries joining the EU experience such a mess?

I would just like to see Scotland as an independent country. It's the norm, I believe.

[Blootoon87]

Not shitebaggery just being sensible. Even if you think you can win a battle you don’t just go steaming in with no plan.
If Brexit is a total disaster then I’m sure that independence could be an option but I can’t see it being on the table and also the other thing is that the majority of Scotland just doesn’t want it on the table at the moment.
The SNP will take a major hit in the next election anyway.

I really can't see how the SNP are going to take a major hit in the next election. Care to explain your thinking there?

[D.A.F.C]

15 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said:

So do you think the Leave campaign had any plan other the current omnishambles we find ourselves in?

If you’re being cynical it looks like either Boris and his cronies are either total buffoons or created a mess to oust May and swoop in to ‘sort everything out’. Being part of the UK under a right wing Tory government is abhorrent but as part of the UK we are paying less tax than we spend. If we went Independent then how would we support this overspend? As I said the SNP has frozen council tax, this is a bit of a short term false economy. Regarding the protest vote being long term, Labour aren’t getting back in because they are still a shambles. 

UK politics has been in turmoil for years now and people are sick of it and want stability. Even if it’s a no deal Brexit, unfortunately.

[git-intae-thum]

4 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Being part of the UK under a right wing Tory government is abhorrent but as part of the UK we are paying less tax than we spend. If we went Independent then how would we support this overspend? 

This is not fact.

No one knows how much tax revenue Scotland raises.

Let alone how much an independent Scotland will raise.

[Tibbermoresaint]

51 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

The SNP/Independent Scotland cannot deliver EU membership. 

Bollocks.

Stick to your own country, you know nothing of ours.

[The_Kincardine]

4 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Bollocks.

Stick to your own country, you know nothing of ours.

I do.  Scotland is my own country.  Oh wait, are you going on one of your xenophobic rants?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

59 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

I try to be proud of Scotland 

 

1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:

What does Scotland have to offer. f**k all.

Pipe the f**k down 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

This is not fact.
No one knows how much tax revenue Scotland raises.
Let alone how much an independent Scotland will raise.

Bet Westminster knows exactly how much thats why they want to keep us.

[Tibbermoresaint]

5 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Scotland is my own country.

Nope.

[The_Kincardine]

42 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Don't you read the Daily Ranger, Kinc?

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/independent-scotland-would-welcomed-eu-16176489

And it is as sensible about New Scotland as it is about New Rangers

Edit.  Will New Scotland join The EU?  Yes, of course.  Will it join any time before 2030?  Absolutely not.  

Edited July 29, 2019 by The_Kincardine

[ICTJohnboy]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

And it is as sensible about New Scotland as it is about New Rangers

 

Sorry mate,

I meant Sevco.

[git-intae-thum]

52 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Scottish independence is only desired by a minority of Scotland's electorate, 

An assertion that sorely requires testing given the events of the last 5 years

[BawWatchin]

10 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

And it is as sensible about New Scotland as it is about New Rangers

Edit.  Will New Scotland join The EU?  Yes, of course.  Will it join any time before 2030?  Absolutely not.  

[Dunfermline Don]

Bet Westminster knows exactly how much thats why they want to keep us.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Not shitebaggery just being sensible. Even if you think you can win a battle you don’t just go steaming in with no plan.
If Brexit is a total disaster then I’m sure that independence could be an option but I can’t see it being on the table and also the other thing is that the majority of Scotland just doesn’t want it on the table at the moment.
The SNP will take a major hit in the next election anyway.

Why did David Cameron come out and say Scotland would succeed in being an Independent country?

Fair enough if folk don't wan't it but the too wee too poor too stupid arguement doesn't wash anymore.

[D.A.F.C]

I think most of the feeling to get independence is due to the imbalance to the south east. Just because we probably could make it on our own doesn’t mean we should. Creating more trade barriers and unknowns is exactly what we don’t need at the moment. I would be astonished if we went for another referendum within two years.