half wit Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 58 minutes ago, BigTboy said: Linlithgow 470 on Saturday, stop it 300 max. To many clubs are at the counting pigeons as well as fans game. Think they were using the Seville counter lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 hours ago, BigTboy said: Linlithgow 470 on Saturday, stop it 300 max. To many clubs are at the counting pigeons as well as fans game. Must admit when I saw the figure of 470 I was surprised also. I didn't think the crowd looked any better or worse than other recent games where the attendances have been around the 300 level. Including season ticket holders in the count for leagues games - I assumed was standard for clubs? Most of our season tickets are regulars so would be in any actual headcount. I always assumed you take gate receipts, plus number of season tickets and add a rough count of kids (who we let in free) then you have the official attendance. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Auld Heid said: Must admit when I saw the figure of 470 I was surprised also. I didn't think the crowd looked any better or worse than other recent games where the attendances have been around the 300 level. Including season ticket holders in the count for leagues games - I assumed was standard for clubs? Most of our season tickets are regulars so would be in any actual headcount. I always assumed you take gate receipts, plus number of season tickets and add a rough count of kids (who we let in free) then you have the official attendance. How can people who are not at the game be counted as being in "attendance"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Burnie_man said: How can people who are not at the game be counted as being in "attendance"? Maybe some clubs use an evidence based approach similar to what I suggested opposed to a physical count. How did Bonnyrigg count their attendance against Clyde? Pretty sure there would be no physical count - if they sold tickets - did they all turn up - but would be in the count even if not in attendance. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, Auld Heid said: Maybe some clubs use an evidence based approach similar to what I suggested opposed to a physical count. How did Bonnyrigg count their attendance against Clyde? Pretty sure there would be no physical count - if they sold tickets - did they all turn up - but would be in the count even if not in attendance. Any attendance should be based on who actually enters the ground, otherwise it's not an attendance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Any attendance should be based on who actually enters the ground, otherwise it's not an attendance. Tell that to the SPFL and most professional sports leagues that gather attendance figures. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said: Tell that to the SPFL and most professional sports leagues that gather attendance figures. I know there are claims that some clubs lump all ST holders/pre-ticket sales into the figure regardless of whether they attend or not, others don't. Either way, for the purposes of this exercise, it's supposed to be a count of everyone in the ground on the spectator side of the barrier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Burnie_man said: I know there are claims that some clubs lump all ST holders/pre-ticket sales into the figure regardless of whether they attend or not, others don't. Either way, for the purposes of this exercise, it's supposed to be a count of everyone in the ground on the spectator side of the barrier. The ultimate goal of this I imagine is to get every club involved in this so everyone is involved. Which means going for numbers provided by the club. Clubs are going to approach their official attendances differently to a headcount. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said: The ultimate goal of this I imagine is to get every club involved in this so everyone is involved. Which means going for numbers provided by the club. Clubs are going to approach their official attendances differently to a headcount. Burnieclub has been at pains to point out what constitutes an attendance in his mind, ie everyone watching the game spectator side of the barrier. That's an attendance in it's purest form. A bit disappointing if clubs add in people who weren't actually there, it just makes a mockery of trying to compare and contrast between clubs. However, I understand why he accepts club stats over fan headcounts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Jones Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Burnie_man said: Burnieclub has been at pains to point out what constitutes an attendance in his mind, ie everyone watching the game spectator side of the barrier. That's an attendance in it's purest form. A bit disappointing if clubs add in people who weren't actually there, it just makes a mockery of trying to compare and contrast between clubs. However, I understand why he accepts club stats over fan headcounts. S P O T - O N Burnie! Reading what Mr Blackburn has said time and again, and to quote 8mile, using season tickets as an add-on to boost the crowd stats is B S ! Never entered my mind to count season tickets or having read what Mr Blackburn has repeated so many times, have I thought you should add how many season tickets you have. Either head count behind the barrier, or use the number of ticket stubs you hand out at the gate and add the number of people (mainly kids) who get in and don’t pay. Hardly rocket science and avoids quite a number of different club supporters thinking the wee Rose are at the giggery pockery!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I don't know about anyone else, but the only attendance figures I'm interested in are the number of people who turned up to watch a match. Other figures may be useful for other purposes, but surely not for what's being attempted here. I've learned that I'm pretty bad at estimating crowds, before doing headcounts I always underestimated, but even then I'd guess 300-350 on Saturday. Given that the club doesn't know how many season ticket holders turn up for a match I can understand that their "official" figures aren't a headcount. But for us nerds on this thread, it's probably what we want to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8MileBU Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 S P O T - O N Burnie! Reading what Mr Blackburn has said time and again, and to quote 8mile, using season tickets as an add-on to boost the crowd stats is B S ! Never entered my mind to count season tickets or having read what Mr Blackburn has repeated so many times, have I thought you should add how many season tickets you have. Either head count behind the barrier, or use the number of ticket stubs you hand out at the gate and add the number of people (mainly kids) who get in and don’t pay. Hardly rocket science and avoids quite a number of different club supporters thinking the wee Rose are at the giggery pockery!! Not quite what I said, but carry on... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Jones Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, 8MileBU said: Not quite what I said, but carry on... “b s” is the only part I was (meaning) referencing about what you said. Sorry! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Big difference in counting double figure attendances compared to the 2200 at Bonnyrigg. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 To sound a contrary note: for purpose of gauging trends between seasons its important the methodology isn't altered. If a club counted unused STs last season it's valid to keep doing so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Jones Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 42 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: To sound a contrary note: for purpose of gauging trends between seasons its important the methodology isn't altered. If a club counted unused STs last season it's valid to keep doing so. Don’t agree. If you know something is wrong, or is contrary to other (most) other clubs perceptions of how to record attendances, then you change now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boheesian Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 22 hours ago, BigTboy said: Linlithgow 470 on Saturday, stop it 300 max. To many clubs are at the counting pigeons as well as fans game. Was a bit surprised by the figure. Did a rough head count from the enclosure to Social Club and estimated around 170 so maybe 300 is nearer the mark. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastyMan Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 16 hours ago, Burnie_man said: I know there are claims that some clubs lump all ST holders/pre-ticket sales into the figure regardless of whether they attend or not, others don't. Either way, for the purposes of this exercise, it's supposed to be a count of everyone in the ground on the spectator side of the barrier. I was at the Hearts AGM where Ann Budge was asked about attendance figures and she answered that it was an SPFL requirement to report tickets sold ie to include non attending season tickets. The bigger figures suit the sponsors or at least selling the "product" to the sponsors 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 3 hours ago, PastyMan said: I was at the Hearts AGM where Ann Budge was asked about attendance figures and she answered that it was an SPFL requirement to report tickets sold ie to include non attending season tickets. The bigger figures suit the sponsors or at least selling the "product" to the sponsors Ridiculous! They should declare it as "tickets sold" in that case rather than a figure based on those "in attendance" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 If you're counting all sold tickets it'll give you the 'gate' rather than the 'attendance'. Not saying one or the other is the best way of doing it. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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