B teams of Big Clubs in Lower Leagues

[BACKOFTHENET]

We need to put the big teams, under 21 year old sides in the lower divisions. This change is about helping the international side, not about helping the big sides.
By giving young players early competitive experience, we will develop more players good enough for the international side.
So we will be able to qualify for and be dark horses for major tournaments.
France, Germany, Croatia, Spain, and the Netherlands play their big sides b teams in the lower divisions to help develop more young players.  Look at how well Croatia did to reach the World Cup Final. I f we allowed big sides to play reserve teams in the lower leagues, then maybe we could develop more great players like the Croatian league does.
Scotland should copy this, to maximize the potential of young Scottish players.
Critics will say, it is unfair take the places of other teams in the league. But I think the priority is the national teams, and the performance of our club sides in European competitions. I think it is idiotic and unpatriotic, to place two or three part time sides league positions, above maximizing the potential of our young Scottish players. Would you rather a party time team 3 or four places higher in the league or Scotland reach a major tournament?
That is dumb and unpatriotic.
I like part time Scottish sides, they had to the richness and history of Scottish Sport. I support the part time teams being in the Scottish league, as they can develop players too and give match experience to young players by playing their big sides under 21 sides.
But the priority is the national side.
What gets on my nerves is people who say that we should only have 20 teams in the Scottish League, because they do not want loads of part time teams, in the league yet when you put forward the idea of utilising the part time teams in the lower leagues to give games against under 21 sides, suddenly that same person claims we are insulting the smaller sides by playing them.
When for a decade Scotland had a c divisions where big sides b teams played against part time sides, and when
 
Also we need the top clubs to be ruthless in developing young players and signing top talent from abroad so our top teams can do well in Europe and make Scotland proud, so we need to have a system where top teams have a gateway for young players to develop in competitive games, maximizing the potential of our young players.
The development of the national team and our clubs sides performances in Europe is the priority.

 

[Jacksgranda]

26 minutes ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

We need to put the big teams, under 21 year old sides in the lower divisions. This change is about helping the international side, not about helping the big sides.
By giving young players early competitive experience, we will develop more players good enough for the international side.
So we will be able to qualify for and be dark horses for major tournaments.
France, Germany, Croatia, Spain, and the Netherlands play their big sides b teams in the lower divisions to help develop more young players.  Look at how well Croatia did to reach the World Cup Final. I f we allowed big sides to play reserve teams in the lower leagues, then maybe we could develop more great players like the Croatian league does.
Scotland should copy this, to maximize the potential of young Scottish players.
Critics will say, it is unfair take the places of other teams in the league. But I think the priority is the national teams, and the performance of our club sides in European competitions. I think it is idiotic and unpatriotic, to place two or three part time sides league positions, above maximizing the potential of our young Scottish players. Would you rather a party time team 3 or four places higher in the league or Scotland reach a major tournament?
That is dumb and unpatriotic.
I like part time Scottish sides, they had to the richness and history of Scottish Sport. I support the part time teams being in the Scottish league, as they can develop players too and give match experience to young players by playing their big sides under 21 sides.
But the priority is the national side.
What gets on my nerves is people who say that we should only have 20 teams in the Scottish League, because they do not want loads of part time teams, in the league yet when you put forward the idea of utilising the part time teams in the lower leagues to give games against under 21 sides, suddenly that same person claims we are insulting the smaller sides by playing them.
When for a decade Scotland had a c divisions where big sides b teams played against part time sides, and when
 
Also we need the top clubs to be ruthless in developing young players and signing top talent from abroad so our top teams can do well in Europe and make Scotland proud, so we need to have a system where top teams have a gateway for young players to develop in competitive games, maximizing the potential of our young players.
The development of the national team and our clubs sides performances in Europe is the priority.

 

No we don't.

[ROBROYSTON]

38 minutes ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

We need to put the big teams, under 21 year old sides in the lower divisions. This change is about helping the international side, not about helping the big sides.
By giving young players early competitive experience, we will develop more players good enough for the international side.
So we will be able to qualify for and be dark horses for major tournaments.
France, Germany, Croatia, Spain, and the Netherlands play their big sides b teams in the lower divisions to help develop more young players.  Look at how well Croatia did to reach the World Cup Final. I f we allowed big sides to play reserve teams in the lower leagues, then maybe we could develop more great players like the Croatian league does.
Scotland should copy this, to maximize the potential of young Scottish players.
Critics will say, it is unfair take the places of other teams in the league. But I think the priority is the national teams, and the performance of our club sides in European competitions. I think it is idiotic and unpatriotic, to place two or three part time sides league positions, above maximizing the potential of our young Scottish players. Would you rather a party time team 3 or four places higher in the league or Scotland reach a major tournament?
That is dumb and unpatriotic.
I like part time Scottish sides, they had to the richness and history of Scottish Sport. I support the part time teams being in the Scottish league, as they can develop players too and give match experience to young players by playing their big sides under 21 sides.
But the priority is the national side.
What gets on my nerves is people who say that we should only have 20 teams in the Scottish League, because they do not want loads of part time teams, in the league yet when you put forward the idea of utilising the part time teams in the lower leagues to give games against under 21 sides, suddenly that same person claims we are insulting the smaller sides by playing them.
When for a decade Scotland had a c divisions where big sides b teams played against part time sides, and when
 
Also we need the top clubs to be ruthless in developing young players and signing top talent from abroad so our top teams can do well in Europe and make Scotland proud, so we need to have a system where top teams have a gateway for young players to develop in competitive games, maximizing the potential of our young players.
The development of the national team and our clubs sides performances in Europe is the priority.

 

Utter Drival. End Off.

[sjc]

38 minutes ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

We need to put the big teams, under 21 year old sides in the lower divisions. This change is about helping the international side, not about helping the big sides.
By giving young players early competitive experience, we will develop more players good enough for the international side.
So we will be able to qualify for and be dark horses for major tournaments.
France, Germany, Croatia, Spain, and the Netherlands play their big sides b teams in the lower divisions to help develop more young players.  Look at how well Croatia did to reach the World Cup Final. I f we allowed big sides to play reserve teams in the lower leagues, then maybe we could develop more great players like the Croatian league does.
Scotland should copy this, to maximize the potential of young Scottish players.
Critics will say, it is unfair take the places of other teams in the league. But I think the priority is the national teams, and the performance of our club sides in European competitions. I think it is idiotic and unpatriotic, to place two or three part time sides league positions, above maximizing the potential of our young Scottish players. Would you rather a party time team 3 or four places higher in the league or Scotland reach a major tournament?
That is dumb and unpatriotic.
I like part time Scottish sides, they had to the richness and history of Scottish Sport. I support the part time teams being in the Scottish league, as they can develop players too and give match experience to young players by playing their big sides under 21 sides.
But the priority is the national side.
What gets on my nerves is people who say that we should only have 20 teams in the Scottish League, because they do not want loads of part time teams, in the league yet when you put forward the idea of utilising the part time teams in the lower leagues to give games against under 21 sides, suddenly that same person claims we are insulting the smaller sides by playing them.
When for a decade Scotland had a c divisions where big sides b teams played against part time sides, and when
 
Also we need the top clubs to be ruthless in developing young players and signing top talent from abroad so our top teams can do well in Europe and make Scotland proud, so we need to have a system where top teams have a gateway for young players to develop in competitive games, maximizing the potential of our young players.
The development of the national team and our clubs sides performances in Europe is the priority.

 

We need to put this idea in the fucking sea.

[honestly united]

47 minutes ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

We need to put the big teams, under 21 year old sides in the lower divisions. This change is about helping the international side, not about helping the big sides.
By giving young players early competitive experience, we will develop more players good enough for the international side.
So we will be able to qualify for and be dark horses for major tournaments.
France, Germany, Croatia, Spain, and the Netherlands play their big sides b teams in the lower divisions to help develop more young players.  Look at how well Croatia did to reach the World Cup Final. I f we allowed big sides to play reserve teams in the lower leagues, then maybe we could develop more great players like the Croatian league does.
Scotland should copy this, to maximize the potential of young Scottish players.
Critics will say, it is unfair take the places of other teams in the league. But I think the priority is the national teams, and the performance of our club sides in European competitions. I think it is idiotic and unpatriotic, to place two or three part time sides league positions, above maximizing the potential of our young Scottish players. Would you rather a party time team 3 or four places higher in the league or Scotland reach a major tournament?
That is dumb and unpatriotic.
I like part time Scottish sides, they had to the richness and history of Scottish Sport. I support the part time teams being in the Scottish league, as they can develop players too and give match experience to young players by playing their big sides under 21 sides.
But the priority is the national side.
What gets on my nerves is people who say that we should only have 20 teams in the Scottish League, because they do not want loads of part time teams, in the league yet when you put forward the idea of utilising the part time teams in the lower leagues to give games against under 21 sides, suddenly that same person claims we are insulting the smaller sides by playing them.
When for a decade Scotland had a c divisions where big sides b teams played against part time sides, and when
 
Also we need the top clubs to be ruthless in developing young players and signing top talent from abroad so our top teams can do well in Europe and make Scotland proud, so we need to have a system where top teams have a gateway for young players to develop in competitive games, maximizing the potential of our young players.
The development of the national team and our clubs sides performances in Europe is the priority.

 

I'd take a party time team anyday......

[cmontheloknow]

Most players in the youth and reserve set ups don't make it because they're not good enough. Playing against better /older players in competitive football will not markedly make them better. The only ones it would benefit would be the top couple of players but they are in the present system put out on loan. The benefit to the clubs woud be total control over the football education of these players but again it's not necessarily going to make them much better.

[honestly united]

41 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Most players in the youth and reserve set ups don't make it because they're not good enough. Playing against better /older players in competitive football will not markedly make them better. The only ones it would benefit would be the top couple of players but they are in the present system put out on loan. The benefit to the clubs woud be total control over the football education of these players but again it's not necessarily going to make them much better.

And the better ones going out on loan to Championship teams playing with and against experienced full time players is probably better for their development than playing week in week out in SPFL2 against part time players along side some other youngsters.

The issue is more that they dont get game time once back at their parent club so they can kick on and or are never going to be good enough for the top tier / Scotland anyway.

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, honestly united said:

And the better ones going out on loan to Championship teams playing with and against experienced full time players is probably better for their development than playing week in week out in SPFL2 against part time players along side some other youngsters.

The issue is more that they dont get game time once back at their parent club so they can kick on and or are never going to be good enough for the top tier / Scotland anyway.

IMO the best way forward is the status quo. Clubs like Lok and Talbot, Buffs, Glens etc pick up the ones that don't make it with say Ayr, and they don't make it because generally something will be lacking in their game, be it mental, physical, technical, whatever. If we agree the better ones need game time on loan, then what is the purpose of B teams? Unless you insist on the B team being at Championship level as that is the only place the quality would thrive? There is no purpose IMO of say Aberdeen having a Colts side in L2 to give Frank Ross a game - far better he plays for you this season.  Maybe we're saying the same thing but for me, the quality needs to play 1st team on loan as high as possible, the guys that won't make it regardless can stick to Reserve etc... they're just team mates as it is for the better players.

[Cyclizine]

4 hours ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

This change is about helping the international side, not about helping the big sides.
By giving young players early competitive experience, we will develop more players good enough for the international side.

The role of the clubs isn't to develop players for the national team.

4 hours ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

France, Germany, Croatia, Spain, and the Netherlands play their big sides b teams in the lower divisions to help develop more young players.

So do Andorra, the Faroe Islands and Estonia. Italy and England don't.

Having B teams bears no correlation to international success.

4 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

I f we allowed big sides to play reserve teams in the lower leagues, then maybe we could develop more great players like the Croatian league does

How many Croatian internationals play in the Croatian league?

5 hours ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

What gets on my nerves is people who say that we should only have 20 teams in the Scottish League, because they do not want loads of part time teams, in the league yet when you put forward the idea of utilising the part time teams in the lower leagues to give games against under 21 sides, suddenly that same person claims we are insulting the smaller sides by playing them.

B teams in the professional leagues are unwanted, unproven and unnecessary.

[Jacksgranda]

2 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

 

How many Croatian internationals play in the Croatian league?

 

I don't know, it wasn't me that used them as an example to promote this shite idea.

[Cyclizine]

Just now, Jacksgranda said:

I don't know, it wasn't me that used them as an example to promote this shite idea.

Sorry, meant to quote the OP, not your reply to him

[Marten]

As I'm originally from The Netherlands and support a club that is (unfortunately) now in the 2nd tier, I have experienced those B teams with my own club. They have been an absolute disaster for the lower divisions. Attendances are low when these teams are involved, they play with often changing squads, which could affect the league outcome and as they can't get promoted, the league is more messy due to it. But it's not that, there is no evidence at all that these teams benefit youth development. To prevent the most negative effects on the league, there are rules on what players can play in a B-team so clubs can't turn up with a bunch of first teamers when the first team isn't playing. As a result, clubs sometimes hesitate to put their own youth players in the first team, because if they don't turn out to be a success, they might end up ineligible for the B-team and won't play any competitive football for the rest of the season unless they are loaned out. In case of injuries that are for a medium term (i.e. not the rest of the season but not just 1 or 2 games either), clubs have to choose between potentially making the replacement ineligible for the B-team or not putting him in the first team and depriving that player from actual first team experience. Because of all these downsides, a few clubs are now pulling their B-team out of the pyramid and many didn't bother to start with it in the first place. Originally it was meant to include all 34 full-time professional sides with the B-teams being spread over tiers 2 - 5. When B-teams started in the league there were only 14, now there are only 10 with more rumoured to pull out.

The well-known and praised Dutch youth development is not down to B-teams. It's down to an extensive network of regional youth structures with top class coaching and a system that is aimed to get players from non-league youth clubs all the way up to the top. Big names like Arjen Robben and Ruud van Nistelrooy originally started at their local non-league club and only got discovered by professional clubs at a relatively late age. Due to the good coaching they received locally, they didn't look out of place when they eventually made the step to a professional side. The successes in the rest of their careers are widely known.

If you want the Scottish national team to benefit from youth development like the Dutch, you need to look at structures, organisation and especially coaching. Not lazily only pick the the most controversial and least successful aspect of the whole youth system there is over there.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Marten

[honestly united]

1 hour ago, cmontheloknow said:

IMO the best way forward is the status quo. Clubs like Lok and Talbot, Buffs, Glens etc pick up the ones that don't make it with say Ayr, and they don't make it because generally something will be lacking in their game, be it mental, physical, technical, whatever. If we agree the better ones need game time on loan, then what is the purpose of B teams? Unless you insist on the B team being at Championship level as that is the only place the quality would thrive? There is no purpose IMO of say Aberdeen having a Colts side in L2 to give Frank Ross a game - far better he plays for you this season.  Maybe we're saying the same thing but for me, the quality needs to play 1st team on loan as high as possible, the guys that won't make it regardless can stick to Reserve etc... they're just team mates as it is for the better players.

Yeah my point was the status quo makes more sense than colts in league 2 etc. 

[peternapper]

19 hours ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

We need to put the big teams, under 21 year old sides in the lower divisions. This change is about helping the international side, not about helping the big sides.
By giving young players early competitive experience, we will develop more players good enough for the international side.
So we will be able to qualify for and be dark horses for major tournaments.
France, Germany, Croatia, Spain, and the Netherlands play their big sides b teams in the lower divisions to help develop more young players.  Look at how well Croatia did to reach the World Cup Final. I f we allowed big sides to play reserve teams in the lower leagues, then maybe we could develop more great players like the Croatian league does.
Scotland should copy this, to maximize the potential of young Scottish players.
Critics will say, it is unfair take the places of other teams in the league. But I think the priority is the national teams, and the performance of our club sides in European competitions. I think it is idiotic and unpatriotic, to place two or three part time sides league positions, above maximizing the potential of our young Scottish players. Would you rather a party time team 3 or four places higher in the league or Scotland reach a major tournament?
That is dumb and unpatriotic.
I like part time Scottish sides, they had to the richness and history of Scottish Sport. I support the part time teams being in the Scottish league, as they can develop players too and give match experience to young players by playing their big sides under 21 sides.
But the priority is the national side.
What gets on my nerves is people who say that we should only have 20 teams in the Scottish League, because they do not want loads of part time teams, in the league yet when you put forward the idea of utilising the part time teams in the lower leagues to give games against under 21 sides, suddenly that same person claims we are insulting the smaller sides by playing them.
When for a decade Scotland had a c divisions where big sides b teams played against part time sides, and when
 
Also we need the top clubs to be ruthless in developing young players and signing top talent from abroad so our top teams can do well in Europe and make Scotland proud, so we need to have a system where top teams have a gateway for young players to develop in competitive games, maximizing the potential of our young players.
The development of the national team and our clubs sides performances in Europe is the priority.

 

In summery  BOLLOCKS.

[Sergeant Wilson]

33 minutes ago, peternapper said:

In summery  BOLLOCKS.

It would be bollocks at any time of the year.

[vikingTON]

21 hours ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

But the priority is the national side.

Club football is vastly superior to international football and is quite rightly the priority for everyone apart from Hamish Husband and his bunch of weirdo TA 'footsoldiers'. 

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by vikingTON

[welshbairn]

23 hours ago, BACKOFTHENET said:

But I think the priority is the national teams, and the performance of our club sides in European competitions.

What about Caley Thistle?

[Hampden Diehard]

Am I too late to say ballocks to this?

[Cyclizine]

1 hour ago, Hampden Diehard said:

Am I too late to say ballocks to this?

Never too late

[Mick1867]

On 16/07/2019 at 14:31, BACKOFTHENET said:

We need to put the big teams, under 21 year old sides in the lower divisions. This change is about helping the international side, not about helping the big sides.
By giving young players early competitive experience, we will develop more players good enough for the international side.
So we will be able to qualify for and be dark horses for major tournaments.
France, Germany, Croatia, Spain, and the Netherlands play their big sides b teams in the lower divisions to help develop more young players.  Look at how well Croatia did to reach the World Cup Final. I f we allowed big sides to play reserve teams in the lower leagues, then maybe we could develop more great players like the Croatian league does.
Scotland should copy this, to maximize the potential of young Scottish players.
Critics will say, it is unfair take the places of other teams in the league. But I think the priority is the national teams, and the performance of our club sides in European competitions. I think it is idiotic and unpatriotic, to place two or three part time sides league positions, above maximizing the potential of our young Scottish players. Would you rather a party time team 3 or four places higher in the league or Scotland reach a major tournament?
That is dumb and unpatriotic.
I like part time Scottish sides, they had to the richness and history of Scottish Sport. I support the part time teams being in the Scottish league, as they can develop players too and give match experience to young players by playing their big sides under 21 sides.
But the priority is the national side.
What gets on my nerves is people who say that we should only have 20 teams in the Scottish League, because they do not want loads of part time teams, in the league yet when you put forward the idea of utilising the part time teams in the lower leagues to give games against under 21 sides, suddenly that same person claims we are insulting the smaller sides by playing them.
When for a decade Scotland had a c divisions where big sides b teams played against part time sides, and when
 
Also we need the top clubs to be ruthless in developing young players and signing top talent from abroad so our top teams can do well in Europe and make Scotland proud, so we need to have a system where top teams have a gateway for young players to develop in competitive games, maximizing the potential of our young players.
The development of the national team and our clubs sides performances in Europe is the priority.