Gordopolis Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Nice to read such well-worded praise for Darren Fletcher. And not one diddy spouting the tired old "but he did nothing for Scotland" pish either.Top, top player, trusted by Fergie in all of Man U's crucial games.Re the comparison with Mascherano, it's worth pointing out that DF won five EPLs, an FA Cup, a World Club Cup and - although he missed out on the final due to a booking earned in helping his team get there - he is credited with a Champions' League too. Mascherano has two CL medals, but apart from that their honours are justifiably comparable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Mascherano was clearly better and more successful than Fletcher across his career, and no amount of medal waving affects that.However, the original post that started this discussion specifically said "in the EPL", which means you're ruling out the time at Barcelona when Mascherano was one of the best midfielders and subsequently best defenders in the world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Mascherano was clearly better and more successful than Fletcher across his career, and no amount of medal waving affects that.However, the original post that started this discussion specifically said "in the EPL", which means you're ruling out the time at Barcelona when Mascherano was one of the best midfielders and subsequently best defenders in the world.I don't know if you're replying to my post or not. Anyway, I'm not bound to whatever post restricted things to the EPL, nor am I ruling out Barcelona (whatever that means). I'm simply comparing Fletcher's career to Mascherano's. And to use the term "medal waving" is pretty embarrassing stuff. Are you implying that Fletcher's trophies with Man U were less deserved than Mascherano's? Get out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 4 hours ago, DAFC. said: Rangers-minded mates wanking off in the whatsapp group chats about the "rumours" of him being put on loan. I honestly nearly pished myself laughing. The boy is miles above anything around him, technically. He's a starter for Chelsea, 100% Totally, he's the best midfielder they have. Once he's ready physically he plays every week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 My point was that using medals to compare players is a bit simplistic. Both of them played for excellent and successful teams, so of course they're going to win stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 My point was that using medals to compare players is a bit simplistic. Both of them played for excellent and successful teams, so of course they're going to win stuff.You don't play a continued and pivotal role for a successful team at that level unless you're a very, very good player. DF and JM were both top class and my objection was to your assertion that there was a "clear" gulf between them. JM had the glitz of playing for Barca at the stage when they were they sexiest side in Europe, so I understand how that could easily sway perceptions, but Fletcher played every bit as crucial a role for a Ferguson-strength Man U who were driving for the CL most seasons. The guy is quite rightly comparable with Mascherano. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) Mascherano is (like Fletcher who was cut down in his prime) hard to judge because he played at centre-half for a good chunk of his prime. Mascherano had a better career overall but if Fletcher hadn't had such bad luck he could well have been the better player. I certainly think he was better in the Premier League. Edited December 10, 2020 by afca32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 3 hours ago, craigkillie said: Mascherano was clearly better and more successful than Fletcher across his career, and no amount of medal waving affects that. However, the original post that started this discussion specifically said "in the EPL", which means you're ruling out the time at Barcelona when Mascherano was one of the best midfielders and subsequently best defenders in the world. As you should know by now, he was too small to be a good defender. Joking obviously, hes one of the exceptions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Nice to read such well-worded praise for Darren Fletcher. And not one diddy spouting the tired old "but he did nothing for Scotland" pish either.Top, top player, trusted by Fergie in all of Man U's crucial games.Ferguson is arguably the best manager that has ever lived.. Look at Man U just now ffs, and look what he did with Aberdeen.As you quite rightly say, Fletcher was trusted by Ferguson and first name on teamsheet at his peak. That says it all tbh. World Class in his position at that time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, BingMcCrosby said: As you should know by now, he was too small to be a good defender. Joking obviously, hes one of the exceptions. Was he In fact pep has made a career out of having fairly crap defences but just not caring -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Gordopolis said: You don't play a continued and pivotal role for a successful team at that level unless you're a very, very good player. DF and JM were both top class and my objection was to your assertion that there was a "clear" gulf between them. JM had the glitz of playing for Barca at the stage when they were they sexiest side in Europe, so I understand how that could easily sway perceptions, but Fletcher played every bit as crucial a role for a Ferguson-strength Man U who were driving for the CL most seasons. The guy is quite rightly comparable with Mascherano. Can't agree with this mate, I think fletcher was a great player. But mascherano was a far better player in his prime. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Binos said: Was he In fact pep has made a career out of having fairly crap defences but just not caring Yeah he was, could have played just about anywhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, BingMcCrosby said: Yeah he was, could have played just about anywhere. Don't agree They just outplayed people with their midfield and messi -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Binos said: Don't agree They just outplayed people with their midfield and messi Well thats what the forums all about. Personally I dont think there was anything weak in that team. Which is why they horsed everyone for years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, BingMcCrosby said: Well thats what the forums all about. Personally I dont think there was anything weak in that team. Which is why they horsed everyone for years. Never thought the keeper was that great either 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Can't agree with this mate, I think fletcher was a great player. But mascherano was a far better player in his prime.Better I'd agree with. Far or incomparably better is stretching it too far. Fletcher suffered from being an unfashionable face in the United lineup, but he was also absolutely vital. Guys like Rooney have said he was more important for them than the likes of Ronaldo and Tevez 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Binos said: Never thought the keeper was that great either Ill give you that one, valdes was definitely a bit of a passenger. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabFC Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 13 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: Ferguson is arguably the best manager that has ever lived.. Look at Man U just now ffs, and look what he did with Aberdeen. As you quite rightly say, Fletcher was trusted by Ferguson and first name on teamsheet at his peak. That says it all tbh. World Class in his position at that time. I liked Fletcher but this is just crap. Fletcher featured in two Champions League Finals aged 24 & 27 - both times as an unused substitute. Guys playing ahead of him in central midfield for these games included Carrick, Ji-Sung, Hargreaves and Giggs. Oh... and Mascherano played the full game in one of those, for the team that won! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 I have no idea why so many people are interested in debating Javier Mascherano. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snobot Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 45 minutes ago, ArabFC said: I liked Fletcher but this is just crap. Fletcher featured in two Champions League Finals aged 24 & 27 - both times as an unused substitute. Guys playing ahead of him in central midfield for these games included Carrick, Ji-Sung, Hargreaves and Giggs. Oh... and Mascherano played the full game in one of those, for the team that won! Fletcher missed the 2009 final after a controversial sending off in the semi against Arsenal. At that point he was in top form and some thought that him missing the game was a big factor in Barca being able to control the midfield in the final. He would have been a nailed on starter and Man U tried to have the card over-turned. Anyway, Fletcher didn’t play and they lost, thus conclusively proving his magnificence... or something like that. I think he had a small window when he was genuinely appreciated for the player he was even by his own support and that period in 2009 was when he was at his peak I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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