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Billy Gilmour

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4 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:
21 minutes ago, ewan14 said:
IIRC Darren Fletcher became indispensable to Man. U. in the defensive midfielder role despite there being more skilful squad mates

When Fletcher was in his prime at Man U, he was a better player in the EPL than Song and Mascherano

Not looking to get my face slapped with a pigeon here.

But Mascherano was a much better player than fletcher.

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Not looking to get my face slapped with a pigeon here.
But Mascherano was a much better player than fletcher.

Barcelona's Mascherano, definitely, but there's an argument for Fletcher being better for United than he was for Liverpool.

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Just now, craigkillie said:


Barcelona's Mascherano, definitely, but there's an argument for Fletcher being better for United than he was for Liverpool.

Yeah I'd concede that, fletcher at his peak at that particular time may have been more effective.

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Fletcher's peak was taken away from him by his illness and he was becoming one of their most important players prior to that, I'm sure he was even being touted as Captain at one point.

On the wider point of some of the "EPL standard" players that are either coming through or have already established themselves, I agree we now have some very good options.

However what we really need more than anything else is a top class goalscorer. We've not had that for a very long time (if ever tbh). Thats been the real difference between us and the other home nations in recent years. Wales have Bale, ROI had Robbie Keane, even David Healy scored a barrowload for NI FFS! 

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9 minutes ago, EH75 said:

However what we really need more than anything else is a top class goalscorer. We've not had that for a very long time (if ever tbh). 

I would suggest European footballer of the year Denis Law was a decent option.

I do agree though.  The last top class penalty box predator we've had was probably Ally McCoist.

 

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I would suggest European footballer of the year Denis Law was a decent option.
I do agree though.  The last top class penalty box predator we've had was probably Ally McCoist.
 
Oof check out MoJo in crucial world cup qualifiers in 80s. Utter class

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Just now, John Lambies Doos said:
1 minute ago, Lurkst said:
I would suggest European footballer of the year Denis Law was a decent option.
I do agree though.  The last top class penalty box predator we've had was probably Ally McCoist.
 

Oof check out MoJo in crucial world cup qualifiers in 80s. Utter class

Aye Mo was superb for a couple of years.

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Just now, John Lambies Doos said:
29 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:
Not looking to get my face slapped with a pigeon here.
But Mascherano was a much better player than fletcher.

Not when he was in the EPL, hence I specifically stated that

Think that mistakes been covered and conceded already, but by all means say it again.

22 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Yeah I'd concede that, fletcher at his peak at that particular time may have been more effective.

 

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As much a fan of Fletcher as I am no way was he better than Mascherano, five la liga titles, five copa del reys, two CL's, two Euro Super Cups, two club world cups and three Spanish super cups thrown in.  You can't argue with that like.
We can at a certain stage, look above

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1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said:
5 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:
As much a fan of Fletcher as I am no way was he better than Mascherano, five la liga titles, five copa del reys, two CL's, two Euro Super Cups, two club world cups and three Spanish super cups thrown in.  You can't argue with that like.

We can at a certain stage, look above

Aye I'm no having that at all like, Fletch was good but Mascherano was a lynchpin of probably the best side of all time

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Think Gilmour should definitely start getting into the squad, even if only as back-up/rotation option to MacGregor in the deep lying playmaker role. Love watching Gilmour play, always appreciate players like him who can take the ball from the defense and beat opposition midfielders 1 on 1 easily in tight central areas without losing the ball (similiar to thiago, Cazorla, Moussa dembele at spurs). 

In terms of the midfield balance in the short term, I would still like to see McGinn moved into Jack's position as a deeper ball winning box to box midfielder, which would let us play Armstrong or Christie at number 10. Maybe not against Austria or Denmark but in all the other qualifying matches I think this would be our best option - McGinn is better offensively than Jack but is still a great tackler and can put a good shift in.

Think McTominay should stay in the back 3 for now, he has had some great performances for Man U but he often looks clumsy on the half turn when he is pressed. Isn't the most agile at getting his big frame turned 180 degrees when receiving the ball. In the back 3 this isn't an issue as he is facing play the whole time allowing us to better utilise his passing ability and his athleticism to carry the ball into space during the transition.  

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10 minutes ago, Zazu said:

 

Think Gilmour should definitely start getting into the squad, even if only as back-up/rotation option to MacGregor in the deep lying playmaker role. Love watching Gilmour play, always appreciate players like him who can take the ball from the defense and beat opposition midfielders 1 on 1 easily in tight central areas without losing the ball (similiar to thiago, Cazorla, Moussa dembele at spurs). 

In terms of the midfield balance in the short term, I would still like to see McGinn moved into Jack's position as a deeper ball winning box to box midfielder, which would let us play Armstrong or Christie at number 10. Maybe not against Austria or Denmark but in all the other qualifying matches I think this would be our best option - McGinn is better offensively than Jack but is still a great tackler and can put a good shift in.

Think McTominay should stay in the back 3 for now, he has had some great performances for Man U but he often looks clumsy on the half turn when he is pressed. Isn't the most agile at getting his big frame turned 180 degrees when receiving the ball. In the back 3 this isn't an issue as he is facing play the whole time allowing us to better utilise his passing ability and his athleticism to carry the ball into space during the transition.  

Good post but for me Gilmour comes straight into the team not just the squad.  He's the best midfielder we have available and has the right temperament, I think he'd stroll it.

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13 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

So do you think Davis and Arfield would get many minutes for chelsea?

Scott Arfield would be first name on the team sheet at Stamford Bridge IMO.

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Good post but for me Gilmour comes straight into the team not just the squad.  He's the best midfielder we have available and has the right temperament, I think he'd stroll it.
Maybe so, but he will be eased in. Thing I love about Gilmour is that he always has so much time on the ball, it's actually a joy to watch. Whether he starts for Scotland right now is up for debate but if he's not in Clarke's squad come March then it's an absolute travesty

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Both the last two posts are good. The question is not whether McTominay is World Class or the second coming of Franz Beckenbauer, the question is whether he a) would be more effective for Scotland in a different position (i.e. midfield) and b) would he add more than the incumbent. The answer to both those questions is unequivocally, in my view at least, yes. The obvious reason we cannot do it currently however, is his value to the team is greater in his current position.

 

Edit: oops, there were another two whole pages of nonsense between the good posts I was referring to and my comment. I meant the comment by BingMcCrosby and ArabFC at the bottom of page 47!

Edited by albagubrath

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2 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:
14 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:
Good post but for me Gilmour comes straight into the team not just the squad.  He's the best midfielder we have available and has the right temperament, I think he'd stroll it.

Maybe so, but he will be eased in. Thing I love about Gilmour is that he always has so much time on the ball, it's actually a joy to watch. Whether he starts for Scotland right now is up for debate but if he's not in Clarke's squad come March then it's an absolute travesty

I can't see him not being in it.  Imo he's the best kid to come out of Scotland for thirty years.  The special ones you can fast track and they'll be fine.  If it was up to me I'd have no hesitation starting him in a massive game for Scotland tonight, he's already better than the alternatives and has the sort of temperament that means he'd be fine.

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2 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

I can't see him not being in it.  Imo he's the best kid to come out of Scotland for thirty years.  The special ones you can fast track and they'll be fine.  If it was up to me I'd have no hesitation starting him in a massive game for Scotland tonight, he's already better than the alternatives and has the sort of temperament that means he'd be fine.

I'd have to agree with that.  Even England don't often create players like Gilmour.  Sure, they create the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, and Foden etc. which I would absolutely love to have, but they don't create centre/defensive midfielders with the guile and awareness of Gilmour.

He's been thrown into three big matches and been awarded MOTM in each.  Most young players would be hoping to get by without making a mistake, and Gilmour has shown him not only to be comfortable, but a class above.

If Gilmour can make established Liverpool players look rather ordinary, and run about a CL match like it's second nature - then why could he not do exactly the same thing against any of the countries we've just been drawn against?

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1 minute ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

I'd have to agree with that.  Even England don't often create players like Gilmour.  Sure, they create the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, and Foden etc. which I would absolutely love to have, but they don't create centre/defensive midfielders with the guile and awareness of Gilmour.

He's been thrown into three big matches and been awarded MOTM in each.  Most young players would be hoping to get by without making a mistake, and Gilmour has shown him not only to be comfortable, but a class above.

If Gilmour can make established Liverpool players look rather ordinary, and run about a CL match like it's second nature - then why could he not do exactly the same thing against any of the countries we've just been drawn against?

Good post, that's exactly what England have always lacked.  Fair enough to have creativity round the edges of the park but right in the middle is very unusual.  He's a class act, other countries fast track their best kids he's easily our best we should be looking to get him settled in as a first choice in time for the first game of the Euros, with a view to him playing every minute of every game.

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