Billy Gilmour

[troopio]

Said already, the lad has been so badly advised it is beyond a joke now. Cannot stand the Brighton Manager for the way Gilmour is being treated, hope United Smash them in the FA Cup and they fail to qualify for Europe.

[2426255]

34 minutes ago, troopio said:

Cannot stand the Brighton Manager for the way Gilmour is being treated, hope United Smash them in the FA Cup and they fail to qualify for Europe.

[Diamonds are Forever]

23 hours ago, troopio said:

Said already, the lad has been so badly advised it is beyond a joke now. Cannot stand the Brighton Manager for the way Gilmour is being treated, hope United Smash them in the FA Cup and they fail to qualify for Europe.

 

How is he 'being treated? Brighton are having a fantastic season and he has managed them superbly. Gilmour isn't as good as the players ahead of him so isn't playing. This is what happens at literally every football club in the entire world. What do you expect the manager to do? Put the development needs of one random player ahead of the needs of the team?

No doubting Gilmour's techical ability but I think a big problem for him is he is physically weak and slow. I know it's now a heresy in Scottish football to point out that someone is lacking physical attributes for fear of sounding like Gordon Strachan's 'we have small genes' line, but unless he is playing in a side that is totally dominant with the ball then he is going to struggle because he's a man down out of possession. Someone like Callum McGregor is a great example of a player with similar stature but who is quick and can get about the park, Gilmour can't do that yet.

He's in a tough position because dropping down a level to the Championship might just mean he gets swallowed up even more where it's even more end to end, direct football. But it's hard to see him getting near the Brighton team soon and who else in the Premier League would want him? I think a loan move to the Old Firm would be ideal for him, he'd be playing every week, they'd have possession most of the time which would play to his strengths and also allow him time to develop physically.

[Satoshi]

It has been pointed out before on this thread, but adding muscle mass is one of the easiest thing for any footballer to do. Or indeed any male in their early 20s really. 

Indeed, many of them take it too far but it's been linked to injuries and poor form (e.g. Reece James and Trent Alexander Arnold).

Gilmour will have sports scientists telling him what his muscle mass and body fat percentage should be, there has never been any suggestion he is outside of those limits (not like, say, Kalvin Phillips who was publicly called overweight by his manager). Staying within weight will be a lot harder for most players, not putting on muscle mass. Rooney looked pretty much permanently overweight, loved drinking and takeaways, and was usurpisingly finished in his early 30s. The English press fawned over Micah Richards physique when he first emerged - he played his last professional game in his 20s.

Getting faster / more agile is possible but far more difficult. This may be holding him back (none of us know) but it won't be because he won't lift some weights after training.

[Bing.McCrosby]

8 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

How is he 'being treated? Brighton are having a fantastic season and he has managed them superbly. Gilmour isn't as good as the players ahead of him so isn't playing. This is what happens at literally every football club in the entire world. What do you expect the manager to do? Put the development needs of one random player ahead of the needs of the team?

No doubting Gilmour's techical ability but I think a big problem for him is he is physically weak and slow. I know it's now a heresy in Scottish football to point out that someone is lacking physical attributes for fear of sounding like Gordon Strachan's 'we have small genes' line, but unless he is playing in a side that is totally dominant with the ball then he is going to struggle because he's a man down out of possession. Someone like Callum McGregor is a great example of a player with similar stature but who is quick and can get about the park, Gilmour can't do that yet.

He's in a tough position because dropping down a level to the Championship might just mean he gets swallowed up even more where it's even more end to end, direct football. But it's hard to see him getting near the Brighton team soon and who else in the Premier League would want him? I think a loan move to the Old Firm would be ideal for him, he'd be playing every week, they'd have possession most of the time which would play to his strengths and also allow him time to develop physically.

I totally agree, some people just find it harder to build lean muscle than others. So its maybe a but unfair in a way that criticism, as he might be doing his best and seeing little results.

It was the thing being said about him 4 years ago, and he doesn't look much different now. And its not a surprise to most that of the younger players in and around the squad hes now the one struggling for games. Where as he was the one in front in those terms earlier in his career.

Rather than coming back to Scotland tho I think it would be better for him to move abroad and see if he can get things back on track.

 

[BFTD]

I love when we criticise the physiques of professional athletes, like our collective knowledge of fitness and muscle growth extends beyond wanking into an empty Smarties tube until the muscle cramps kick in again.

[Bing.McCrosby]

28 minutes ago, BTFD said:

I love when we criticise the physiques of professional athletes, like our collective knowledge of fitness and muscle growth extends beyond wanking into an empty Smarties tube until the muscle cramps kick in again.

Speak for yourself sir, I have to use a pringles tube

[Satoshi]

5 hours ago, BTFD said:

I love when we criticise the physiques of professional athletes, like our collective knowledge of fitness and muscle growth extends beyond wanking into an empty Smarties tube until the muscle cramps kick in again.

Yep, it's just bizarre empty speculation.

McGinn is having a wonderful club season but no comments on this forum.

Gilmour isn't playing and people speculating on his body composition, attitude etc, just give it a rest. He'll be fine. Steve Clarke clearly still trusts him.

[velo army]

7 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Yep, it's just bizarre empty speculation.

McGinn is having a wonderful club season but no comments on this forum.

Gilmour isn't playing and people speculating on his body composition, attitude etc, just give it a rest. He'll be fine. Steve Clarke clearly still trusts him.

What does Clarke still trust him with? He didn't play a minute in either of those two games. Perhaps he trusts him to carry the water bottles. Or perhaps not, given his lack of strength.

 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

I’d question his attitude at this point.

Caicedo is one thing but it’s Gros who is keeping him out the team. There’s no way Gros is a better footballer.

[2426255]

26 minutes ago, velo army said:

What does Clarke still trust him with? He didn't play a minute in either of those two games. Perhaps he trusts him to carry the water bottles. Or perhaps not, given his lack of strength.

 

He trusts that Billy Gilmour will be a big part of the Scotland National team in the future. 

Quote

There's one or two in the squad that maybe I've been a little bit loyal too to bring them in and keep them involved in it and I think that's important because the ones that I'm speaking about will be a big part of the Scotland squad moving forward I hope. 

Steve Clarke

https://www.youtube.com/live/KjB7h21cwi4?feature=share&t=147

 

[Jambomo]

25 minutes ago, NickMcG said:

I think it was difficult to justify his inclusion in the last squad and, if he's still getting very little game time, his inclusion in the next squad would be a mistake in my opinion.  Surely, it might end up being bad for group dynamics if he continues to be included? I can understand including younger players for the experience but he already has experience of playing.

I hope his career really gets back on track as he should be an important asset

 

I trust Clarke and am happy with whatever he decides tbh. He is there and knows better than us what will impact the squad.

I don’t really think there is a better player that his inclusion is keeping out tbh. That makes a difference.

[dundeefc1783]

17 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I trust Clarke and am happy with whatever he decides tbh. He is there and knows better than us what will impact the squad.

I don’t really think there is a better player that his inclusion is keeping out tbh. That makes a difference.

I would argue that Hayden Hackney is worth a look at. Playing every week for a team challenging at the top of the championship.

[Jambomo]

3 minutes ago, NickMcG said:

But I'm not sure Clarke trusts Gilmour and that"s the problem. It's getting to the stage where it appears to be a waste of time for both parties.

 

I take the point about no other obvious choices but surely it's important than anyone getting called up is getting some decent minutes for their club?

I disagree tbh, he wouldn’t pick him if he didn’t trust him. I don’t think he has any player n that squad he wouldn’t play.

you obviously want players to get game time at the club but look at the likes of Tierney and McTominay, barely played either but there is no question of not playing them. I think that with players at big teams, especially in England, the squads are bigger and decent players are sitting out sometimes. I don’t think you should make that a hard and fast rule.

[dundeefc1783]

13 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

I disagree tbh, he wouldn’t pick him if he didn’t trust him. I don’t think he has any player n that squad he wouldn’t play.

you obviously want players to get game time at the club but look at the likes of Tierney and McTominay, barely played either but there is no question of not playing them. I think that with players at big teams, especially in England, the squads are bigger and decent players are sitting out sometimes. I don’t think you should make that a hard and fast rule.

I don't think Gilmour's situation can be compared to McTominay or Tierney. Both have significantly more game time than Gilmour (granted I appreciate a lot of Tierney's cake earlier in the season). 

There is also a major difference between decent players sitting out sometimes and Gilmour's current predicament. He is clearly a very good player and it's hard to understand just what is going on with him right now. 

Unless his game time increased over the the coming games I personally think he should be dropped from the June squad. 

 

 

[Bairnardo]

I'm not sure why the issue of trust keeps coming up. There's a talent thing. Billy Gilmour has a particular set of skills and a level of potential that Steve Clarke only has limited capacity to nurture. He cannot risk playing him from the start over players who are performing at club level, but he is including him in squads because that's as much as Clarke can really do to assist Gilmours development and try and help him improve his situation.

Clarke is doing a good thing for a good player. 

 

 

[Jambomo]

1 hour ago, NickMcG said:

They"ve played much more than Gilmour, for better teams, too. If he's got any minutes in the last triple header then it might have been fair to include him. I think it's fair to say at this point that he isn't good enough for the EPL . I hope that changes.

Well at the end of the day, like I said, I trust Clarke and the decisions he makes. If he thinks he should be called up/not called up, then I am fine with it either way.

[2426255]

I look at Clarke's decision making around Billy Gilmour more as an investment in the teams future. It will hopefully pay off but there isn't a guarantee.

Given the context around Gilmour's career to date and the fact there isn't a limit on the number of players that can be called into an international squad I can't see a strong argument against Gilmour continuing to be included and I'd view his selection at the moment more in the same way that Steve Clarke has been doing with Robby McCrorie at Rangers - investing in the team's future. 

[2426255]

1 minute ago, NickMcG said:

I agree that he could be a big asset in the future but I'm not convinced having him come along for two consective camps and getting zero minutes is beneficial for him or Scotland.  I don't think it's the job of a national manager nurture players rather than picking the best squad available.

 

Like others have said, a move abroad might be beneficial but will Brighton be ready to make a loss because they wouldn't get back the nine million they paid.

I get that and there could be a negative side potentially other players being demotivated or resentful of the fact that he isn't justifying a place but when placed in the context of him being a young player with good potential who is just struggling at club level for unknown reasons I don't see it as a big deal that he is getting shown a bit of favoritism/support.

[velo army]

Part of a camp is role playing how the other team might play. He might have had him along as our most "Rodri" type player or something. It might not always be about nurturing and developing.