Jump to content

Billy Gilmour


Kuro

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, Binos said:

I would say he could do worse than going on loan to rangers or the championship second half of season 

As ever,  he needs game time,  start every week,  and if manager isn't giving it he should move 

Good to see this absolutely dreadful prediction, not content with all the people who embarrassed themselves with it before.

Care to take a charity bet that he won't go to Rangers or the Championship on loan this season?

9 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Im not sure, but as velo says alot of those games will be in the Norwich loan. Who were awful and he was hardly getting rave reviews. I initially thought he should stick it out at Brighton, but they last couple of games have painted a pretty bleak picture. Hes got alot of experience for his age, so if he's still not being trusted its a concern. Especially players getting played out of position instead of him getting a chance.

Hes better than rangers or the championship still i think. Id love to see him go over to Spain. Could be the making of him.

The last couple of games, when he played in both matches?

Who is he doing terribly in comparison to?

The Norwich manager started him in the majority of games he was available for, Norwich have just sacked their manager in the Championship - maybe Gilmour (their only player to get a Premier League move?) wasn't the problem.

7 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Tuchel and De Zerbi don't rate him but at least the Tartan Army fan boys think he's the FTP regen of Xavi.

 

De Zerbi has publicly stated he rates Gilmour and has played him in the last two matches.

6 hours ago, dundeefc1783 said:

To put a bit of perspective on those 5 appearances, every one of them is from the bench and is a grand total of 17 minutes.

 

So in other words, still on track for my prediction. I still think he will make a few starts this season too, maybe 3-4. No doubt he will play more than Caicedo or MacAllister did in the beginning of their Brighton careers - both were punted on loan.

The amount of people desperate for Gilmour to fail, or be doing terribly is astonishing. Doing terribly is not making the bench, actually starting mid week and coming off the bench in the league is doing fine. Absolutely wild people think otherwise, they should be coming forward with who he is doing terrible in comparison to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Satoshi said:

So in other words, still on track for my prediction. I still think he will make a few starts this season too, maybe 3-4. No doubt he will play more than Caicedo or MacAllister did in the beginning of their Brighton careers - both were punted on loan.

The amount of people desperate for Gilmour to fail, or be doing terribly is astonishing. Doing terribly is not making the bench, actually starting mid week and coming off the bench in the league is doing fine. Absolutely wild people think otherwise, they should be coming forward with who he is doing terrible in comparison to.

I don't particularly give a shit about your prediction. 

I want to see all Scotland players getting regular games for their clubs as it's a benefit for the national team. I would like to see Billy Gilmour do well because he is potentially a fantastic player. But the simple fact is it's not been a great start from him at Brighton. 

You can butter it up whatever way you want but playing 17 minutes of league football since September isn't great and I'm pretty sure Gilmour himself will be disappointed with that. 

He will need to be playing a lot more regularly than that to be in contention to start games for Scotland.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, dundeefc1783 said:

I don't particularly give a shit about your prediction. 

I want to see all Scotland players getting regular games for their clubs as it's a benefit for the national team. I would like to see Billy Gilmour do well because he is potentially a fantastic player. But the simple fact is it's not been a great start from him at Brighton. 

You can butter it up whatever way you want but playing 17 minutes of league football since September isn't great and I'm pretty sure Gilmour himself will be disappointed with that. 

He will need to be playing a lot more regularly than that to be in contention to start games for Scotland.

 

 

Well, you're the one commenting on it.

Even when Alexis MacAllister returned from loan, in his first full season he made 8 league appearances. Clearly this wasn't the dire end of his career or a terrible start as he just won the world cup. That is what happens at well run clubs these days, young players are scouted extensively before being bought, then are trained in how to adapt to the club before starting regularly.

Fabinho and Robertson hardly played for Liverpool in their first 6 months, I'm sure Robertson would be getting written off by the mentalists on this thread, but it was all part of bedding them in and maximising their chances of long term success. They were both experienced internationals, Gilmour is a youngster and only natural he will need more time.

Gilmour knew for a fact he isn't going to walk in ahead of Caicedo and MacAllister when he didn't have a pre season at the club.

Brighton, a club renowned for their astute recruitment, spent more on Gilmour than MacAllister or Caicedo (close to both of them combined actually) and have been giving him regular appearances off the bench in his first season and starting him in cup games. He plays more than either of those did at the beginning of their Brighton careers.

To suggest the manager is writing him because of the last two games (he played in both) is absolutely ludicrous.

Given some comments on this thread you would think Gilmour is going through whats happening to Dele Alli or Sancho. I know forums like this love an overreaction but this really is a complete heads gone. He's doing perfectly fine, and I expect he will play more in the second half of the season.

 

Edited by Satoshi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Well, you're the one commenting on it.

Even when Alexis MacAllister returned from loan, in his first full season he made 8 league appearances. Clearly this wasn't the dire end of his career or a terrible start as he just won the world cup. That is what happens at well run clubs these days, young players are scouted extensively before being bought, then are trained in how to adapt to the club before starting regularly.

Fabinho and Robertson hardly played for Liverpool in their first 6 months, I'm sure Robertson would be getting written off by the mentalists on this thread, but it was all part of bedding them in and maximising their chances of long term success. They were both experienced internationals, Gilmour is a youngster and only natural he will need more time.

Gilmour knew for a fact he isn't going to walk in ahead of Caicedo and MacAllister when he didn't have a pre season at the club.

Brighton, a club renowned for their astute recruitment, spent more on Gilmour than MacAllister or Caicedo (close to both of them combined actually) and have been giving him regular appearances off the bench in his first season and starting him in cup games. He plays more than either of those did at the beginning of their Brighton careers.

To suggest the manager is writing him because of the last two games (he played in both) is absolutely ludicrous.

Given some comments on this thread you would think Gilmour is going through whats happening to Dele Alli or Sancho. I know forums like this love an overreaction but this really is a complete heads gone. He's doing perfectly fine, and I expect he will play more in the second half of the season.

 

Alli has played 7 times this season and scored a goal. I'd bite your hand off for an Alli-esque season for oor Billy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, velo army said:

Alli has played 7 times this season and scored a goal. I'd bite your hand off for an Alli-esque season for oor Billy.

Really? A player on a crushing, highly profiled downfall where his manager publicly criticises him?

It's a novel approach, I guess.

At least you're not a gutless coward on the charity bets though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Satoshi said:

Really? A player on a crushing, highly profiled downfall where his manager publicly criticises him?

It's a novel approach, I guess.

At least you're not a gutless coward on the charity bets though.

£5 says I am.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know these threads on young Scottish players end up in some mental places, but it's deeply depressing that "he'd be better off going to The Rangers" has entered the conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Satoshi said:

The amount of people desperate for Gilmour to fail, or be doing terribly is astonishing. Doing terribly is not making the bench, actually starting mid week and coming off the bench in the league is doing fine. Absolutely wild people think otherwise, they should be coming forward with who he is doing terrible in comparison to.

I think I've figured out the disconnect here. Your constantly wanting to compare gilmour to other players. I think people think gilmour is doing badly in comparison to what he should be doing.

This is the guy who started 5 games for Chelsea at 18. Including him running the show against Liverpool. The guy who carried our midfield in Wembley against England. And drove us on excellently at home to Denmark.

Hes already produced big performances in big games for club and country.

At the moment he's played very little this season, hes getting hooked in cup games, hes getting players played out of position ahead of him.

So I think the disconnect is that you don't actually know or have any appreciation of how well he should be doing. The people who are constructively criticising him you claim are haters. Its the same guys who were praising him since long before you posted.

I think with all the stats you quote its a way to mask how little you understand football.

So while your over the moon with his 17 minutes this season. The people who know a player when they see one are disappointed.

Edited by BingMcCrosby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I think I've figured out the disconnect here. Your constantly wanting to compare gilmour to other players. I think people think gilmour is doing badly in comparison to what he should be doing.

This is the guy who started 5 games for Chelsea at 18. Including him running the show against Liverpool. The guy who carried our midfield in Wembley against England. And drove us on excellently at home to Denmark.

Hes already produced big performances in big games for club and country.

At the moment he's played very little this season, hes getting hooked in cup games, hes getting players played out of position ahead of him.

So I think the disconnect is that you don't actually know or have any appreciation of how well he should be doing. The people who are constructively criticising him you claim are haters. Its the same guys who were praising him since long before you posted.

I think with all the stats you quote its a way to mask how little you understand football.

So while your over the moon with his 17 minutes this season. The people who know a player when they see one are disappointed.

Now you've gone and done it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There absolutely no doubt that the last year and a bit have been a bit dissapointing in terms of Gilmour's development. And a large part of that is how impressive he was when he got opportunities at Chelsea and Scotland a while ago. I don't think many people would have predicted he'd be struggling to get a few minutes here and there for Brighton by the end of 2022 after his performance at Wembley in the Euros.

However, he's still only 21, he's still clearly a very talented player and there's plenty of time for him to get 'back on track'. Footballers careers don't always just take linear paths to progression. Which means comparisons with specific players are next to meaningless. There are great centre mids who were first choice at top level clubs younger than Gilmour is now and there are great players who hadn't had a sniff of top level or intenational football at all by the time they were Gilmour's age.

If Gilmour's going to fulfill the potnential he clearly has then the next year or so is going to be crucial. If he can't claim a regular starting place at Brighton (or another club playing in a top league) in that time then it's unlikely he'll become the player we all want him to be.

But it's fairly churlish to dismiss the concerns that he's not really progressed much over the past year and a half when they're pretty well founded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

I prefer @Satoshi 's old stuff when Gilmour was the best midfielder at Chelsea and already ahead of Modric.

He's too cloying now.

Yeah, except none of this happened.

He was ahead of Modric was at a similar age (and Kante and Jorginho) that much is without doubt. You have also used the word cloying incorrectly.

1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

 

5 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I think I've figured out the disconnect here. Your constantly wanting to compare gilmour to other players. I think people think gilmour is doing badly in comparison to what he should be doing.

This is the guy who started 5 games for Chelsea at 18. Including him running the show against Liverpool. The guy who carried our midfield in Wembley against England. And drove us on excellently at home to Denmark.

Hes already produced big performances in big games for club and country.

At the moment he's played very little this season, hes getting hooked in cup games, hes getting players played out of position ahead of him.

So I think the disconnect is that you don't actually know or have any appreciation of how well he should be doing. The people who are constructively criticising him you claim are haters. Its the same guys who were praising him since long before you posted.

I think with all the stats you quote its a way to mask how little you understand football.

So while your over the moon with his 17 minutes this season. The people who know a player when they see one are disappointed.

 

The reason I like comparing him to players is because it's factual information. It's much better than comparing him to the ludicrous stuff inside people's heads, if you thought Gilmour would be playing every game for Chelsea and are outraged he's playing more and more regularly as he beds into Brighton that's your problem. Your crazy predictions are nothing to do with me. Let's factually compare his progress to his peer group. There is only one central midfielder his age with more PL appearances (the others aren't even close).

He hasnt played 17 minutes this season, he played 62 minutes in a cup game last week! Must you make such basic ham fisted errors? I have no doubt that he will make more league appearances this season, including starts. Gross has played that position before many times, including with Brighton, but that's a far less obvious error than the one you made on his minutes this season.

As to the point about understanding football - nobody wants to address my point about him playing more than MacAllister or Caicedo at the start of their Brighton careers (or how long it took to bed Fabinho, Robertson and Thiago in at Liverpool) because it's a slam dunk. Those mortified about Gilmour only making two appearances (of two) this week - have a look around top level football - bedding in is incredibly normal, especially for young players and for certain positions (e.g. central midfielders).

Stats > fans wild predictions about him going to Rangers or the Championship.

1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

There absolutely no doubt that the last year and a bit have been a bit dissapointing in terms of Gilmour's development. And a large part of that is how impressive he was when he got opportunities at Chelsea and Scotland a while ago. I don't think many people would have predicted he'd be struggling to get a few minutes here and there for Brighton by the end of 2022 after his performance at Wembley in the Euros.

However, he's still only 21, he's still clearly a very talented player and there's plenty of time for him to get 'back on track'. Footballers careers don't always just take linear paths to progression. Which means comparisons with specific players are next to meaningless. There are great centre mids who were first choice at top level clubs younger than Gilmour is now and there are great players who hadn't had a sniff of top level or intenational football at all by the time they were Gilmour's age.

If Gilmour's going to fulfill the potnential he clearly has then the next year or so is going to be crucial. If he can't claim a regular starting place at Brighton (or another club playing in a top league) in that time then it's unlikely he'll become the player we all want him to be.

But it's fairly churlish to dismiss the concerns that he's not really progressed much over the past year and a half when they're pretty well founded.

The last two years where he has played regularly in the top flight and secured a relatively big money transfer to a side renowned for their excellent recruitment and developing young players? Beyond playing regularly for Chelsea, and/or joining a less terrible team than Norwich I'm not sure how it could have gone much better for him. He had the option to stay at Chelsea, or go to another top five European league, but chose Brighton because he thought they were the best option for his development. I agree with him, he wasn't (and won't be) short of offers. Anyone who knows anything about modern football knew he wouldn't walk straight into the Brighton first team. He is being bedded in faster than any other young midfielder they have signed in recent years, including the two players ahead of him now (one of whom is a world cup winner). They took years to adapt including loan spells, Gilmour has gone straight into the first team - name checked by their manager as their 12th or 13th best player.

He has played the last two matches and look at this thread - you would assume he's being fined for missing training. Some of his stats (e.g. switches of possession) stand out as being particularly excellent.

You said that careers aren't linear and you're right. Many of those thread thought Gilmour would drop down to the championship or join Rangers - neither came close to happening. I thought he would easily secure another top flight club and I got it right, I knew he wouldn't walk into the first team and would target 10-15 appearances this season. I'm on track with that too.

He could have stayed on the Chelsea loan carousel like lesser prospects have (e.g. Gallagher) but pushed for a permanent move even after the owner told him the manager was getting sacked. He's doing fine, and 10 posts from the usual suspects every game he doesn't start won't change that.

If he manages less than 10 appearances in all competitions (they are in 2) for the rest of the season (barring major injury) then that is something to be concerned about. Anyone want to make a charity bet on that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Yeah, except none of this happened.

He was ahead of Modric was at a similar age (and Kante and Jorginho) that much is without doubt. You have also used the word cloying incorrectly.

The reason I like comparing him to players is because it's factual information. It's much better than comparing him to the ludicrous stuff inside people's heads, if you thought Gilmour would be playing every game for Chelsea and are outraged he's playing more and more regularly as he beds into Brighton that's your problem. Your crazy predictions are nothing to do with me. Let's factually compare his progress to his peer group. There is only one central midfielder his age with more PL appearances (the others aren't even close).

He hasnt played 17 minutes this season, he played 62 minutes in a cup game last week! Must you make such basic ham fisted errors? I have no doubt that he will make more league appearances this season, including starts. Gross has played that position before many times, including with Brighton, but that's a far less obvious error than the one you made on his minutes this season.

As to the point about understanding football - nobody wants to address my point about him playing more than MacAllister or Caicedo at the start of their Brighton careers (or how long it took to bed Fabinho, Robertson and Thiago in at Liverpool) because it's a slam dunk. Those mortified about Gilmour only making two appearances (of two) this week - have a look around top level football - bedding in is incredibly normal, especially for young players and for certain positions (e.g. central midfielders).

Stats > fans wild predictions about him going to Rangers or the Championship.

The last two years where he has played regularly in the top flight and secured a relatively big money transfer to a side renowned for their excellent recruitment and developing young players? Beyond playing regularly for Chelsea, and/or joining a less terrible team than Norwich I'm not sure how it could have gone much better for him. He had the option to stay at Chelsea, or go to another top five European league, but chose Brighton because he thought they were the best option for his development. I agree with him, he wasn't (and won't be) short of offers. Anyone who knows anything about modern football knew he wouldn't walk straight into the Brighton first team. He is being bedded in faster than any other young midfielder they have signed in recent years, including the two players ahead of him now (one of whom is a world cup winner). They took years to adapt including loan spells, Gilmour has gone straight into the first team - name checked by their manager as their 12th or 13th best player.

He has played the last two matches and look at this thread - you would assume he's being fined for missing training. Some of his stats (e.g. switches of possession) stand out as being particularly excellent.

You said that careers aren't linear and you're right. Many of those thread thought Gilmour would drop down to the championship or join Rangers - neither came close to happening. I thought he would easily secure another top flight club and I got it right, I knew he wouldn't walk into the first team and would target 10-15 appearances this season. I'm on track with that too.

He could have stayed on the Chelsea loan carousel like lesser prospects have (e.g. Gallagher) but pushed for a permanent move even after the owner told him the manager was getting sacked. He's doing fine, and 10 posts from the usual suspects every game he doesn't start won't change that.

If he manages less than 10 appearances in all competitions (they are in 2) for the rest of the season (barring major injury) then that is something to be concerned about. Anyone want to make a charity bet on that?

He's not playing 'more and more regularly ' you fucking idiot that's the point. And it's 17 minutes in the league. I stopped reading after that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

He's not playing 'more and more regularly ' you fucking idiot that's the point. And it's 17 minutes in the league. I stopped reading after that.

He is playing more regularly than he was when he was first signed, he started a game last week! I think he will make more appearances in the coming weeks too.

And we all know it's 17 minutes in the league, it's been posted several times, only Bing seemed to get it wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Satoshi said:

He is playing more regularly than he was when he was first signed, he started a game last week! I think he will make more appearances in the coming weeks too.

And we all know it's 17 minutes in the league, it's been posted several times, only Bing seemed to get it wrong.

No he's not. That was a cup game. Have you ever encountered football before? For cup games teams pick their second string.

The fact he got a game in the cup is not a good thing. That means they were resting players they consider more important for games they consider more important. Do you understand this?

Once normal service resumed where you can actually judge where he's at he got brought on in stoppage time despite his team being 3-0 since the 56th minute.

That's terrible. He's doing terribly. He will leave in January. And you won't be posting for three months when he does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

No he's not. That was a cup game. Have you ever encountered football before? For cup games teams pick their second string.

The fact he got a game in the cup is not a good thing. That means they were resting players they consider more important for games they consider more important. Do you understand this?

Once normal service resumed where you can actually judge where he's at he got brought on in stoppage time despite his team being 3-0 since the 56th minute.

That's terrible. He's doing terribly. He will leave in January. And you won't be posting for three months when he does.

If you are confident he will leave in January - let's have a charity bet on it.

Of course, if you weren't half cut, you would have noticed from the team sheet that day Brighton strated a number of regular first team players (Dunk, Gross, Caicedo, March, Lallana and Trossard all played). Starting a game is not a bad sign at all, it looks like Gilmour is the 12th or 13th best player at the club - which is what his manager stated publicly after all. If he hadn't played any part in the last two games despite being fit that would be a concern, he started one and came off the bench in another. You seem to think this is worse - I have no absolutely no idea why. I suspect you don't either, you just want to bitch about Gilmour and hate all the inconvenient facts that I'm posting to prove you wrong.

You obviously won't say who is doing terribly in comparison to, no one will - because he isn't - but why not regale us with your top flight career? You clearly think you are / were a better player than Gilmour so give us some details.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Satoshi

Look id say very few people are reading you posts now. You just don't understand basic football stuff.

Ill simplify it again.

Gilmour is a young developing player, the more he plays the better it his for him. Not only does it develop him personally but it improves his match fitness and match sharpness. These are things that help him and in turn helps us.

He plays for Scotland also, so us as Scotland fans we want him to be as good as he can be. So want him to play as much as he can.

So when he hardly plays we discuss it, and that will continue to happen wether you like it or not.

You've given your opinion over and over, which basically is "hes doing great" its been heard. Paragraphs of the same stuff regurgitated page after page. And nobody agrees with you, so what is the point of keeping going? Your just looking foolish.

If you don't understand the first part just post more of your same crap and I will understand. And simplify further for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except I've never said he's doing great, you just made that up. I said he's doing fine, and he clearly is. That's two basic errors in a row after the howler about his minutes this season, probably best you don't accuse others of not knowing about football.

If these posters are so concerned about Gilmour, the manager and player don't seem to be. He could have easily gotten guaranteed minutes in another league (Spain or Italy for example). Would that be better? He could play every minute for Preston or Rangers but that clearly isn't as good as learning and developing at Brighton.

I'm not surprised you don't read or respond to my posts, you wouldn't be able to. You just aren't capable of it, and you seem to recognise this now so don't even try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...