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Billy Gilmour


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Anyway, to get back on topic: I feel like Billy needs to up his game or he might lose his place and could anyone really argue if that happened? It might even be an idea to take the heat off him and rest him against Crystal Palace because he's played a lot lately, isn't playing particularly well, is basically a lightning rod for a lot of Norwich fans frustration and it's potentially doing him more harm than good at this point. So perhaps giving him a short spell out the team to re-energize would be good management.

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2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

 


Caring about doing well in the league isn't unique to English clubs, I'm pretty sure Rangers and Celtic are both keen to win the league too.

The facts are that mid-ranking English clubs struggle in Europe and consistently struggle to beat Scottish clubs in Europe when they face them. In the last 5 European meetings between English and Scottish clubs, how many wins in 90 minutes do the English clubs have? I'll give you a clue, it's less than 1.

 

I'm sure they are, however there's a pretty big jump down to the competition that Rangers and Celtic will face on the weekly, and the level of competition that they'll then face in those games. The Rangers v Dundee game was on in the pub before Rangers latest European game and the pace of the game was akin to a training match. In comparison Leicester had Aston Villa. 

 

On the flip side, if you dump Rangers and Celtic in the Premier where they'd be working flat out every week to get points, do you think they do as well in Europe? 

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I reckon the only way you can compare the quality of Scottish teams against English teams is to compare wage bills
Scottish clubs:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vereins-statistik/wertvollstemannschaften/marktwertetop/plus/0/galerie/0?land_id=190&kontinent_id=0&yt0=Show

English clubs:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vereins-statistik/wertvollstemannschaften/marktwertetop/plus/0/galerie/0?land_id=189&kontinent_id=0&yt0=Show

So Rangers would be 23rd in England (Top Championship/Bottom EPL)

Celtic 26th (Ditto)

Hibs /Aberdeen 40th (Mid to Bottom championship)

12th in Scotland = 60th England (Mid to Bottom Div 1)

 

Not perfect but I can't think of a better objective measure.

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I think a more pertinent question is why on earth would you compare Scotland, population 5.4m, with England population 55.9m?

A far more appropriate comparison would be how we are doing vs. Denmark, Finland, Slovakia, Ireland, Croatia and Norway.

None of these countries have ever had a European finalist, Scotland have had two in the last 20 years (and of course won several European trophies prior to that).

It would be like comparing Canadas military with the USA and moaning why it isn't as good. Bizarre behaviour.

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7 hours ago, Satoshi said:

I think a more pertinent question is why on earth would you compare Scotland, population 5.4m, with England population 55.9m?

A far more appropriate comparison would be how we are doing vs. Denmark, Finland, Slovakia, Ireland, Croatia and Norway.

None of these countries have ever had a European finalist, Scotland have had two in the last 20 years (and of course won several European trophies prior to that).

It would be like comparing Canadas military with the USA and moaning why it isn't as good. Bizarre behaviour.

maybe if Canada's Ranger Patrol Group keep talking about joining the US military and all associated with the Patrol Group had a hard-on for all things US then the comparisons would be less bizarre. 

 

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I would say there is virtually no chance Gilmour will ever play at Championship level. Even if his Norwich loan doesn't work out there will be plenty of clubs in the Premier League and in the other top 4 leagues who would want to sign him.

Norwich aren't god enough at this level but it's odd a 20 year old loanee is getting attacked every time they lose.

Does anyone seriously believe Norwich would be doing any better if they hadn't signed Gilmour? Do they think they would be doing any better with Winks or Dele Alli? 

 

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10 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Norwich aren't god enough at this level but it's odd a 20 year old loanee is getting attacked every time they lose.

He is a lightning rod for the Norwich fans frustrations because of the fierce hype from Scotland and Chelsea fans selling him as the best thing since sliced bread. At this point it is irrelevant how he compares to others. He isn't playing well, the team isn't playing well and he is the symbol of the poor recruitment.

Edited by 2426255
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As Thomas Tuchel said he needs to help his team be better, that's the only way that this loan can be seen as successful. On the pitch and that starts today at Crystal Palace. I do think he has it in him but he has to show it. He needs to perform now, not soon because Norwich as a team need to perform in order to avoid relegation. He is part of that team and so to help that team he must perform.

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I look at the ratings on the BBC website and according to those he's consistently in the top two or three Norwich players.

I was wondering if it was just a brigading by Scotland fans and I don't know how many votes there are, but it seems every game he's highly rated.

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24 minutes ago, velo army said:

I was wondering if it was just a brigading by Scotland fans and I don't know how many votes there are, but it seems every game he's highly rated.

It is exactly that, by Scotland and Chelsea fans and it doesn't go down well with the Norwich fans.

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He has quite a high bar to reach thanks to expectations set by hype from fans and media which has made it quite difficult/impossible for him to live up to when the reality is he is a promising young player needing minutes. He is not Norwich City's main man and should never have been touted as such.

29 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

On the other hand, it would be easier if he had the same manager throughout this short period of time. 

Most people were happy that Farke went at the time, it hasn't really made a big difference as yet but one thing that has changed is Billy Gilmour has been playing close to 100% of available minutes - so if anything it has helped him break back into the team.

 

Edited by 2426255
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22 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

He is a lightning rod for the Norwich fans frustrations because of the fierce hype from Scotland and Chelsea fans selling him as the best thing since sliced bread. At this point it is irrelevant how he compares to others. He isn't playing well, the team isn't playing well and he is the symbol of the poor recruitment.

So in other words nothing to do with Gilmour then, he doesn't control what people post about him on the internet.

As my previous posts point out - he's doing far better than pretty much every other Chelsea lonaee ever as well as their first team midfielders at the same age.

Kane had an undoubtedly worse loan spell at Norwich (and Leicester).

You will post criticism of Gilmour whenever Norwich don't win (which wil be a lot). Tuchel and Lampard are both big fans of GIlmour and stated this openly, Tuchel didn't want him to go on loan because he considered him a first team player (unlike, say, Gallagher or Barkley).

The evidence suggests Gilmour will go on to have a very good career, and I'm sure this Norwich loan is helping him develop. If a bunch of middle aged men would rather focus their attacks on a 20 year old (who is no where near their worst player) that's an indictment of them not Gilmour.

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16 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

So in other words nothing to do with Gilmour then, he doesn't control what people post about him on the internet.

As my previous posts point out - he's doing far better than pretty much every other Chelsea lonaee ever as well as their first team midfielders at the same age.

Kane had an undoubtedly worse loan spell at Norwich (and Leicester).

You will post criticism of Gilmour whenever Norwich don't win (which wil be a lot). Tuchel and Lampard are both big fans of GIlmour and stated this openly, Tuchel didn't want him to go on loan because he considered him a first team player (unlike, say, Gallagher or Barkley).

The evidence suggests Gilmour will go on to have a very good career, and I'm sure this Norwich loan is helping him develop. If a bunch of middle aged men would rather focus their attacks on a 20 year old (who is no where near their worst player) that's an indictment of them not Gilmour.

He has to start playing well and helping his team. That is what is in his control. You may view it as critiscism what I post - but it's usually just the truth or a windup, this is the former.

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He’s got a wonderful touch, ball control and is very agile. But what I’m noticing is his passing range is fairly overrated. Recently an issue has been misplacing simple passed. Still look at Emile Smith-Rowe now. 2 years ago he went to Huddersfield in the championship and it helped massively. Some players are able to develop without a loan to a lower league however I feel the championship would be ideal for Gilmour. Also much less spotlight on him…

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12 minutes ago, Chewing Taffies said:

Not sure how this compares with Gilmours situation though.

It's unimportant and irrelevant as far as Gilmour is concerned. The bottom line is simple, if he plays well and helps Norwich be a better team  - even if they lose and are relegated the fans will recognise that. We can look at a wider perspective later when the dust has settled on the season but he is at Norwich and that's where his job is right now.

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3 hours ago, Chewing Taffies said:

Correct - he broke his foot at Norwich and only played 3 games for them!

Not sure how this compares with Gilmours situation though.

Then went on to have a poor loan spell at Leicester in the Championship where he was on the bench behind Dave Nugent.

Maybe he will start playing better, who knows, he probably can't stop Norwich going down though. One thing we can know for certain if that he does start playing better those currently posting on the thread will not be back in this thread.

More likely is that Norwich continue to lose because they aren't good enough, and Gilmour is blamed after every match with posters salivating because a Scottish player is doing badly.

I'm always reminded of that phrase I used to hear when I was younger, grass that grows tall gets cut off. There's nothing some people in Scotland love more than trashing someone who is successful. It's a weird mentality,  but it does have some benefits in that Scotland is a very flat hiearchical society - more Scandinanvian than English.

Gilmours loan spell at Norwich is about his development more than performance (pretty much all loan spells are) I doubt Tuchel is concerned about how Gilmour is doing but if he was he may have the option to recall in January, or Norwich could terminate the loan. Neither will happen because he is developing at Norwich, and he is 100% good enough to be in their first team.

How he performs for Scotland much more important to me than how he does for Norwich - and thankfully he has been consistently excellent.

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