Billy Gilmour

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

Scotland Gemmill is a ledge. 

[MarkoRaj]

32 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Have we?  So who was the last Scottish teenager to boss the reigning world and European champions?

Barry Bannan went to old Trafford at 20 and bossed a midfield of Carrick and Fletcher.

Not quite the same but I do remember believing that Bannan was a future star. 

Just shows that bursting on the scene is different to sustaining a career at the highest level

[Gordopolis]

Now that everyone has had a head's-gone, went out and battered someone or chopped their own cocks off... it's worth pointing out that all that's happened is that he has been selected for the U21s. Steve Clarke can - and I think will - include him in the full squad next week.

Had Gilmour been left out of the u21s, it would be obvious that he was going to be called into the senior squad, and the press attention on him - especially our own scummy Scottish hacks - would become intense from now all the way to the playoffs. I think Clarke is just playing it cool with this (and safe too, reserving the option to not select him should he have a couple of shite games for Chelsea between now and the senior squad announcement).

Have faith. Young Gilmour will have his hands on the Euro 2020 trophy come midsummer.

[Davie fae Duke Street]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

An FA Cup 5th round match between two of the biggest sides in England isn't important or pressurised? Come on.

I haven't said we need to throw him on because he might score a volley that takes us through, I'm saying we weren't scared to give a young guy breaking through at a top club a game before, so why now?

Can you tell me what is reasonable about making Billy Gilmour play U21 International football when his own club have already promoted him beyond not only that age group but the U23 age group as well?  Are our Scottish U21s of such a high level that Billy Gilmour has more to learn from them? Are they f**k, and Scotland Gemmill will be teaching him nothing.

No, every match has pressure of course and the FA cup is still a chance to silverware so there's still importance. But it's well known that these matches are down the priority list for these clubs and they use them to give players a rest and blood the youth.

Because there's no particular need for it. That area of the pitch is already well covered. Is he going to learn that much in a very short training period with a new squad? You could have him in the squad, you could not. If Clarke wants to focus on getting the most out of the established players of his game plan in the run up to an important match I'd say that's reasonable. 

[Burnie_man]

23 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I haven't said we need to throw him on because he might score a volley that takes us through, I'm saying we weren't scared to give a young guy breaking through at a top club a game before, so why now?

Darren Fletcher was 17 years ago, you may have a point of it was a couple of years back.

[SlipperyP]

Just make him captain.

I'm out

14 minutes ago, Davie fae Duke Street said:

Because there's no particular need for it. That area of the pitch is already well covered.

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by SlipperyP

[The Moonster]

7 minutes ago, Davie fae Duke Street said:

Is he going to learn that much in a very short training period with a new squad? 

To be clear then, you don't think he should be called up to the senior squad because he won't learn anything, but you're happy with him continuing with the U21 squad because he'll learn...what exactly?

9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Darren Fletcher was 17 years ago, you may have a point of it was a couple of years back.

You'll need to explain that one I'm afraid.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

You'll need to explain that one I'm afraid.

You're using an example from 17 years ago to justify why Gilmour should be in the squad.  What relevance does 17 years ago have to the current situation?  As someone pointed out, our midfield that day included Gavin Rae and Graeme Alexander and was frankly woeful.  It has zero relevance.

[Davie fae Duke Street]

4 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

To be clear then, you don't think he should be called up to the senior squad because he won't learn anything, but you're happy with him continuing with the U21 squad because he'll learn...what exactly?

You'll need to explain that one I'm afraid.

Come on Moonster, at least try to read what's actually posted:

"You could have him in the squad, you could not. If Clarke wants to focus on getting the most out of the established players of his game plan in the run up to an important match I'd say that's reasonable."

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

To be clear then, you don't think he should be called up to the senior squad because he won't learn anything, but you're happy with him continuing with the U21 squad because he'll learn...what exactly?

He'll help the team move towards the U21 Finals with a couple of good results, rather than warm the bench.

We have a minimum of 8 more Internationals to play this year, a combination of friendles in June, and then NL qualifiers,  plenty of opportunity to involve him if he continues to play first team football for Chelsea.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

3 hours ago, DAFC. said:

I'd have Gilmour ahead of all three you've just mentioned. However, McGinn, McTominay and McGregor, I imagine, would get the nod ahead of him to start. He still should have been called up though. What a country.

McGinn isn't fit.  I don't know how many times people need this explained to them.  He broke his fucking ankle three months ago, not even, that's a big fuckin deal for a footballer. The games are less than three weeks away and he has not played a minute of first team football this year.

No danger McGinn starts imo, maybe off the bench.  If he does he couldn't possibly play ninety minutes.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

He's been average for the Scotland U21s though. 

Throwing him into a playoff game with a bunch of guys he's never met never mind played with makes no sense when you have McGregor and Fleck to play that role. It would be a different equation if he was a match winner in the final third. 

Who cares?  He hasn't played for the 21s for four months.  Four months ago he wouldn't have been getting picked to start games for Chelsea either.  He is now.  He's ready now, the games we have to play are arguably easier games and a lower standard than the two games he's played in the last week and got MOTM in.

His training every day is against players much much better than anyone he'll play with or against for the 21s, there's nothing left for him to learn there.  What could he learn playing against Israel u21's that he couldn't training with Kante every day?

[craigkillie]

The U21s are as good as out and Billy Gilmour is better than Kenny McLean. Fin.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

He's been average for the Scotland U21s though. 

Throwing him into a playoff game with a bunch of guys he's never met never mind played with makes no sense when you have McGregor and Fleck to play that role. It would be a different equation if he was a match winner in the final third. 

And he's the youngest player to ever play for Scotland u21s in history, and the youngest player ever to score for Scotland u21s too.  How is that average?  That's literally the precise opposite of average.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Correct.  I have watched almost all U21 games he has featured in.  He has undoubted talent, no question, but he has failed to materially influence the game.  The U21's haven't scored in three games.

He is also surrounded by world class players at Chelsea, drop him into a less that world class Scotland midfield, in a pressure cooker environment, win or bust game, one of the biggest in the last decade or more, with people expecting him to do something, and we expect what exactly. Is it a case of sink or swim?

He has 16/18 years ahead of him in a Scotland shirt if he continues like he has so far.  I asked a Chelsea ST holder (and Scotland regular) mate about him and his answer was "not yet".

This isn't a game to experiment.  That's even if it goes ahead, which I very much doubt it will.

Its not experimenting to pick a player who is better than the alternatives in his position, its jsut common sense.  If he was 24 there would be no debate about it he'd obviously be the first name on the teamsheet against Israel. 

[Detournement]

57 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

 

Can you tell me what is reasonable about making Billy Gilmour play U21 International football when his own club have already promoted him beyond not only that age group but the U23 age group as well?  Are our Scottish U21s of such a high level that Billy Gilmour has more to learn from them? Are they f**k, and Scotland Gemmill will be teaching him nothing.

The majority of u21 players in big European nations  are first teamers at their clubs. 

Phil Foden for example. 

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The U21s are as good as out and Billy Gilmour is better than Kenny McLean. Fin.

No they're not.

[velo army]

Ludicrous there is any debate on this.

Roy Keane said he thought he was watching a world class, experienced footballer the other day. Lampard said he trusts him and doesn't care about his age.

The idea that bringing Gilmour into the squad is a gamble is knicker-wetting in the extreme, and some of the gymnastics being performed to defend his exclusion are impressive.

Get him in.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

51 minutes ago, MarkoRaj said:

Barry Bannan went to old Trafford at 20 and bossed a midfield of Carrick and Fletcher.

Not quite the same but I do remember believing that Bannan was a future star. 

Just shows that bursting on the scene is different to sustaining a career at the highest level

Did he aye?  Or were high as a kite?  Evidence please

[The Moonster]

22 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

You're using an example from 17 years ago to justify why Gilmour should be in the squad.  What relevance does 17 years ago have to the current situation?  As someone pointed out, our midfield that day included Gavin Rae and Graeme Alexander and was frankly woeful.  It has zero relevance.

Fletcher was among the best players we had, we called him up, used him and his age and experience was irrelevant. Everyone is in agreement that Gilmour is probably 5th in line for a starting midfield spot, so we all agree he's among the best we've got. If McGinn doesn't make it through injury and McTominay picks up a knock, do you have Gilmour stepping in or do you pick MacLean/Jack/Shinnie? 

19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

He'll help the team move towards the U21 Finals with a couple of good results, rather than warm the bench.

We have a minimum of 8 more Internationals to play this year, a combination of friendles in June, and then NL qualifiers,  plenty of opportunity to involve him if he continues to play first team football for Chelsea.

Will he? I thought he was "bang average" for the U21s? 

Not sure we can use Billy in the June friendlies, we'll need to get our best players together so that we can prepare for the qualifiers and Nations League games. Can't play him in the qualifiers or Nations League games, too important to throw in a guy we haven't used before. If we qualified I'm not sure I'd call up Gilmour, is a major tournament really the best place to throw in a young guy?

See how this circle of absolute pish can just keep regurgitating? It needs broken at some point, sooner is better than later.