Billy Gilmour

[Smokerson]

I cant just cant fathom for the life of me why anyone who watched even small highlights of the Liverpool and Everton games would think this game would be too big for me or that he doesn't at the very least deserve to be included. I am just hoping Clarke is at Villa Park and or Leicester to watch him in the next fortnight.

[The Moonster]

23 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

Ok, even if true, which I don't agree with, is he likely to play?  The 4 I mentioned, plus Armstrong and Christie are all ahead of him and all played at similar levels and done so consistently well. 

He'll get his chance.  This game is too big to gamble with.

Why is the U21 match meaningful?

No, McGinn, McTominay and McGregor will all likely start before him, as would Fleck in all likelihood. Armstrong and Christie don't play the same position. However, John McGinn has been out for months and won't be anywhere near match fit. McTominay is not long back, albeit has played more football than McGinn recently. I'd rather have Gilmour there to fill in for those two than Ryan Jack, Kenny MacLean or Graeme Shinnie. Get him involved with the squad now and when the next big game comes around Gilmour will be integrated and we'll know where he stands in relation to the rest of our team.

Was the Lithuania "win or bust" game in 2004 "too big to gamble" with throwing on 19 year old Darren Fletcher with 25 minutes to go? 

[Tony Wonder]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Why is the U21 match meaningful?

No, McGinn, McTominay and McGregor will all likely start before him, as would Fleck in all likelihood. Armstrong and Christie don't play the same position. However, John McGinn has been out for months and won't be anywhere near match fit. McTominay is not long back, albeit has played more football than McGinn recently. I'd rather have Gilmour there to fill in for those two than Ryan Jack, Kenny MacLean or Graeme Shinnie. Get him involved with the squad now and when the next big game comes around Gilmour will be integrated and we'll know where he stands in relation to the rest of our team.

Was the Lithuania "win or bust" game in 2004 "too big to gamble" with throwing on 19 year old Darren Fletcher with 25 minutes to go? 

The 21's game is meaningful because they can qualify.  Yes, the first team game obviously overshadows it but getting to even a youth major is a big deal for these guys, including Gilmour.   If it was a straight choice between what game he should play in if he was to start, it's a no brainer.

I'd genuinely be happy if Gilmour was in the squad, he looks a brilliant talent, I just get the reasons why he won't when he'd be nowhere near first choice.

As for the fletcher co parison it's not the same, our midfield that day had Alexander and Rae in it.  We never exactly had many options.

[Burnie_man]

51 minutes ago, sparky88 said:

At what point does he become eligible for England?

Never 

[Tony Wonder]

17 minutes ago, SlipperyP said:

I'm talking about Jack and Shinnie, because they play the same position as Gilmour, you do watch football? It's not like Hearts where you just run around headless.

ETA I'll give McT (not typing his full name as it too long) as a holding midfielder, but not the rest.

McGregor, McGinn, McT and Fleck have all played as deeper midfielders for Scotland.  And they'll go in there ahead of guys like Jack and Shinnie to make sure they are involved.

[Marshmallo]

5 minutes ago, Tony Wonder said:

The 21's game is meaningful because they can qualify.

Age grade football solely exists to create a pipeline to the senior team.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, Tony Wonder said:

Not many I imagine seeing as he thinks Gilmour is being dragged down by guys like Moore who has never had a 21's call up before.

  indeed.

[Tony Wonder]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

Age grade football solely exists to create a pipeline to the senior team.

Of course it does, but if he's not going to start he's better served helping the 21's qualify because ultimately the experience for the whole squad would give them a better opportunity of progression to the senior squad long term if they went to the 21's Euros.

[Davie fae Duke Street]

8 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Why is the U21 match meaningful?

No, McGinn, McTominay and McGregor will all likely start before him, as would Fleck in all likelihood. Armstrong and Christie don't play the same position. However, John McGinn has been out for months and won't be anywhere near match fit. McTominay is not long back, albeit has played more football than McGinn recently. I'd rather have Gilmour there to fill in for those two than Ryan Jack, Kenny MacLean or Graeme Shinnie. Get him involved with the squad now and when the next big game comes around Gilmour will be integrated and we'll know where he stands in relation to the rest of our team.

Was the Lithuania "win or bust" game in 2004 "too big to gamble" with throwing on 19 year old Darren Fletcher with 25 minutes to go? 

I would image that the prep for one or two high pressure play off matches isn't an ideal time to get any useful embedding of a new  young player. There's plenty of time afterwards for that.

Pending injuries, the midfield three will likely be macgregor, mctomminay and mcginn or christie. In the situation of a central midfielder needing to be subbed on it'll be fleck, armstrong or mcginn.

[SlipperyP]

1 minute ago, Tony Wonder said:

McGregor, McGinn, McT and Fleck have all played as deeper midfielders for Scotland.  And they'll go in there ahead of guys like Jack and Shinnie to make sure they are involved.

aye ok Tony, play players out of position. too keep out a better option. 

 

 

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, Tony Wonder said:

The 21's game is meaningful because they can qualify.  Yes, the first team game obviously overshadows it but getting to even a youth major is a big deal for these guys, including Gilmour.   If it was a straight choice between what game he should play in if he was to start, it's a no brainer.

I'd genuinely be happy if Gilmour was in the squad, he looks a brilliant talent, I just get the reasons why he won't when he'd be nowhere near first choice.

As for the fletcher co parison it's not the same, our midfield that day had Alexander and Rae in it.  We never exactly had many options.

The U21s have qualified before and it's meant bugger all for our prospects of the full team qualifying. I'm fairly sure Gilmour would rather try and help Scotland qualify for the senior tournament and then try and make sure he's got a place in that squad in the summer. U21s are there to ready players for first team football, Chelsea have already promoted him beyond this level, yet you want to keep him there.

Alexander came on in the 90th minute and was generally a solid enough performer for Scotland. Our midfield that day was Cameron, Ferguson, Rae and McFadden. Okay, you could argue we have a bit more depth just now but regardless, we weren't shy in throwing a young guy with no experience into a crucial match because he was among the best we had. Gilmour is obviously in that conversation now too, because we're having that conversation.

[SlipperyP]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

he U21s have qualified before and it's meant bugger all for our prospects of the full team qualifying. I'm fairly sure Gilmour would rather try and help Scotland qualify for the senior tournament and then try and make sure he's got a place in that squad in the summer. U21s are there to ready players for first team football, Chelsea have already promoted him beyond this level, yet you want to keep him there.

boom!!!!

[Lex]

The U21s have qualified before and it's meant bugger all for our prospects of the full team qualifying.

Worth pointing out that the under 21’s haven’t qualified for a tournament since 1996, they’re even worse than the senior team in that regard.

Disappointed but not surprised that Gilmour isn’t in the squad. He should have been in the starting 11 never mind the squad but oh well.

Win the playoffs or beat it Clarke.

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, Davie fae Duke Street said:

I would image that the prep for one or two high pressure play off matches isn't an ideal time to get any useful embedding of a new  young player. There's plenty of time afterwards for that.

Pending injuries, the midfield three will likely be macgregor, mctomminay and mcginn or christie. In the situation of a central midfielder needing to be subbed on it'll be fleck, armstrong or mcginn.

I'd argue there's no better time to involve him - he'll get to see what a pressure situation is like at International level. It's almost as if Frank Lampard threw him into that Liverpool game as a test to see if he could handle the pressure of a game against a top side, which he did, amazingly.

But aye, lets wait until we're playing Trinidad & Tobago at Easter Road in a midweek friendly before we give him a go.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

I'm far from being a cautious dinosaur as you well know, and if this was a run-of-the-mill qualifier then I'd be all for us giving him a go off the bench or whatever.  I  think this game has come at the wrong time, it's win or bust.

Too many people have been sucked in by the hype.  We've been here before.

Have we?  So who was the last Scottish teenager to boss the reigning world and European champions?

[Burnie_man]

7 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

The U21s have qualified before and it's meant bugger all for our prospects of the full team qualifying.

The last time the U21's "qualified" was in 1996, a final 4 tournament in Barcelona inc Spain, France and Italy after beating Hungary over 2 legs in the quarters.

Our previous 4 appearances were between 1980-1988.

Our decline at U21 level pre-dates our decline at senior level. Whether the two are linked is open to speculation.

[Marshmallo]

4 minutes ago, Lex said:

 

Worth pointing out that the under 21’s haven’t qualified for a tournament since 1996, they’re even worse than the senior team in that regard.

Disappointed but not surprised that Gilmour isn’t in the squad. He should have been in the starting 11 never mind the squad but oh well.

Win the playoffs or beat it Clarke.

 

He could still be in the senior squad

[Davie fae Duke Street]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

I'd argue there's no better time to involve him - he'll get to see what a pressure situation is like at International level. It's almost as if Frank Lampard threw him into that Liverpool game as a test to see if he could handle the pressure of a game against a top side, which he did, amazingly.

But aye, lets wait until we're playing Trinidad & Tobago at Easter Road in a midweek friendly before we give him a go.

The FA cup isn't regarded as such a big deal these days in England, especially amongst the big teams. Hence why Liverpool also didn't play their fully strength squad that match.

Chucking Gilmour  on in the desperate hope that he recreates a freak Flecther goal from over a decade ago isn't reasonable thinking.

[SlipperyP]

4 minutes ago, Davie fae Duke Street said:

The FA cup isn't regarded as such a big deal these days in England, especially amongst the big teams. Hence why Liverpool also didn't play their fully strength squad that match.

Chucking Gilmour  on in the desperate hope that he recreates a freak Flecther goal from over a decade ago isn't reasonable thinking.

Aye, those second string players of Liverpool.  They weren't trying Billy, the game was only a kick aboot son, good try though.  Maybe next game......Billy, Everton are shite, maybe next week against...who they got, oh aye Villa. nae sorry Billy, they only have Scotland best player in the last year, you have to do better than that lad. ffs 

[The Moonster]

Just now, Davie fae Duke Street said:

The FA cup isn't regarded as such a big deal these days in England, especially amongst the big teams. Hence why Liverpool also didn't play their fully strength squad that match.

Chucking Gilmour  on in the desperate hope that he recreates a freak Flecther goal from over a decade ago isn't reasonable thinking.

An FA Cup 5th round match between two of the biggest sides in England isn't important or pressurised? Come on.

I haven't said we need to throw him on because he might score a volley that takes us through, I'm saying we weren't scared to give a young guy breaking through at a top club a game before, so why now?

Can you tell me what is reasonable about making Billy Gilmour play U21 International football when his own club have already promoted him beyond not only that age group but the U23 age group as well?  Are our Scottish U21s of such a high level that Billy Gilmour has more to learn from them? Are they f**k, and Scotland Gemmill will be teaching him nothing.