Semi Finals

[Ann Dan Otherthing]

20 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

But there's margin of error in these decisions, and last night's was very, very tight.

At some point we have to have some sort of an 'umpire's call' for offsides.

Doesn't matter how tight it is, the part of the body is either offside or it's not (in line is not). She was offside last night and while it's possible a lino would get that call wrong (the so-called benefit of the doubt), VAR got it right.

[pandarilla]

Doesn't matter how tight it is, the part of the body is either offside or it's not (in line is not). She was offside last night and while it's possible a lino would get that call wrong (the so-called benefit of the doubt), VAR got it right.

When the ball is kicked is not an instant moment in time though. That's a process, and depending on when they pause the image you can be on or off.

[Jaggy Snake]

I'm not sure why there's a fuss over the offside decision. Neither the post match coverage on the TV or Radio 5 even made that big a deal about it, other than to view it as slightly unlucky/unfortunate.

I also find the spin people put on things regarding VAR odd. We have no idea whether the assistant ref would have flagged for Ellen White being offside if the game hadn't had VAR, because they are told to keep their flag down for tight decisions.

If we assume the assistant would have given the correct decision and raised her flag immediately, the whistle could easily have been blown before the ball had even hit the net. The replay would have shown the assistant got the decision correct, even if it was tight, and the game would have carried on with no controversy around that incident.

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

As I have said before, I dont think anyone can disagree that extra help for the ref is a good thing. But the system we have came up with is pish and doesnt fit with what we want or expect from football. People who defend VAR IMO are doing so on the basis of defending the principle of help for the refs and ignoring the fact that it is clumsy and badly implemented.

I also think, and I have mentioned it before, that nailing offsides would go a long way to clearing up so much stuff and given technology these days it could be done eaaily IMO. GPS Tracker in the boots, leaving the linesman only to decide the point at which the ball is played forward and allow the computer to say which boot is closest to goal. VAR official then only needs a very quick look to filter out those maybe not interfering with play

It doesn't have to be the player's feet which determine offside - it could be their head or their knee or their shoulder or whatever. And of course, you can argue that it should just be about their feet, but that would ultimately lead to similar controversy if a player whose head is in an offside position scores a header.

 

[craigkillie]

28 minutes ago, Jaggy Snake said:

I'm not sure why there's a fuss over the offside decision. Neither the post match coverage on the TV or Radio 5 even made that big a deal about it, other than to view it as slightly unlucky/unfortunate.

I also find the spin people put on things regarding VAR odd. We have no idea whether the assistant ref would have flagged for Ellen White being offside if the game hadn't had VAR, because they are told to keep their flag down for tight decisions.

If we assume the assistant would have given the correct decision and raised her flag immediately, the whistle could easily have been blown before the ball had even hit the net. The replay would have shown the assistant got the decision correct, even if it was tight, and the game would have carried on with no controversy around that incident.

They are told to keep their flag down while play is going on, but then to raise it afterwards. So if the assistant last night had thought it was offside then her flag would have gone up after White scored.

[Bairnardo]

It doesn't have to be the player's feet which determine offside - it could be their head or their knee or their shoulder or whatever. And of course, you can argue that it should just be about their feet, but that would ultimately lead to similar controversy if a player whose head is in an offside position scores a header.

 

Yeah I know, my method would neccessitate an adjustment in that regard it I think it would be a fair compromise/tradeoff if it offered proper accuracy and speed, and the fact that a head could be slightly offside with the feet onside squares with the seldom seen mantra of "benefit of doubt to the attacker"

 

I mean I know its pie in the sky stuff probably and that VAR is here to stay but as we are banding ideas about, I have ling thought that seems like a simple enough method.

 

 

Edit to add the possibility of scoring a header from a position where your head was off and feet were on at the time of a ball played forward seems fairly remote.... you wouldnt already be stooping forward to meet the ball as it is just being played.... Just trying to picture it.... You are right obviously but in terms of making the tedium that is a VAR decision a little better, id like to see this

[Jaggy Snake]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

They are told to keep their flag down while play is going on, but then to raise it afterwards. So if the assistant last night had thought it was offside then her flag would have gone up after White scored.

Ah, fair enough. I can't say I'd noticed the difference between incidents when they had or hadn't raised their flag after.

[Savage Henry]

In all common sense
It was never offside, she had one foot in front
And it was never a penalty, it was the tiniest accidental flick
The rule changes/interpredations are absurd and var takes an age to arrive at them

So what you are saying is that it was offside and it was a penalty?

I struggle to see any contact at all, just as I didn’t see any contact in the USA Spain game.

Neither of those decisions were made because of a rule change.

VAR has been a bit of a farce, but I wouldn’t say those were particularly bad examples of the system.

[pozbaird]

In time, I think VAR will be a good thing, but my goodness, they need to work immediately on the process involved in using it. Maybe this is a simplistic way of explaining my view on it, but here goes. For something like the Maradona handball v England, or the Thierry Henry cheeky handball v Ireland - VAR would have been brilliant. Clear, obvious mistakes that massively influenced a match.

Someone’s foot being an inch offside, or an American’s foot briefly coming together with an English lassie’s calf, at high speed, in milliseconds?

Do me a favour. Anyway, that’s where I think they need to use VAR, and where they don’t. Not for every bloody thing that goes on in a game.

Maybe a ‘coaches challenge’ system to trigger a VAR review would be worth trying, and if there’s a clear and obvious mistake (in the mind of a team’s head coach), allow them to throw a ‘VAR challenge’ flag. Twice a game, otherwise let the referee and assistants crack on. Now, if there’s been no flags thrown, maybe last night for example, the American coach might have just challenged anything to run the clock down, just add on the time taken. Surely to goodness with two watches on their wrist and big stadium clocks, they could negate any flag throwing for time wasting sake?

Edited July 3, 2019 by pozbaird

[bairney]

On 02/07/2019 at 08:15, dundeefc1783 said:

Media down there becoming unbearable again with their “it’s coming home” shite. When will they ever learn.

Lived and worked down there for 15 years. I'm sure all the little England flags were waving on the front wings of their cars again this summer only to suddenly disappear....

[Hedgecutter]

1 hour ago, bairney said:

all the little England flags were waving on the front wings of their cars

This is a thing?

[Jacksgranda]

18 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

 

It was never a penalty but a bunch of shite-scared referee c***s watch it over and over until they convince themselves it is. Shower of useless parking warden c***s.

 

But apart from that, what's your opinion of referees, Mr S C?

[Scary Bear]

But apart from that, what's your opinion of referees, Mr S C?

 

I believe they are plumb necessary. Best when there’s just the one at the minute until they sort out how to use VAR.

 

Drunk me is not a fan of them.

[kennysmassiveego]

8 hours ago, Ann Dan Otherthing said:

For me, the England player’s foot came back up, as she prepared to shoot, and that heel caught the defender’s knee. Certainly no pen for me and justice was done.

Tbf Killie had  a penalty given against us when a Hearts player ? seemingly kicked the back of Broadfoots leg at Tynecastle 

[pozbaird]

Wonder what VAR would have made of Dundee United’s disallowed offside goal in the 1987 Scottish Cup Final....

...would simply have confirmed what we all know to be true... Arab cnut was clearly a mile offside. 

[s_dog]

FFS 9 minutes of the Netherlands v Sweden game Pearce lasted before mentioning England. 

[The_Kincardine]

3 minutes ago, s_dog said:

FFS 9 minutes of the Netherlands v Sweden game Pearce lasted before mentioning England. 

He does sound as if he's commentating at a state funeral.  p***k.

Anyway, my most recent ex wife will be insufferable if Sweden win...so mon Team Oranje.

[meanmistermustard]

Doubt Pearce gives a shit about either team or the match and would rather spend the 90 minutes rabbiting on about the brave Englanders and how unfortunate they were. Surprised and disappointed he's commentating.

[miloman]

Best qoute so far from Sue Smith "I thought she was going to open up her legs and go"!!

[Skinheed]

Oranjeboom, now that there's a nice drink.