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Lowland Trapdoorwatch 2019-20

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On 04/08/2019 at 21:48, sureiknow said:

I would think if we ( Gretna ) went into the South League even more fans would desert us.

We barely get a 100 now at games.

I remember when we would have taken near that amount to away games.

Sponsership may go too.

I wonder is it worth while carrying on if we drop into that League.

Just my thoughts at the moment.

Got to disagree with this. Playing in the South would mean more "local type" games, less travelling and winning most games encourages more people to come along and watch....the sponsors would reach more "local" people too which would please them.

Re 100 at games? I think the core support is about 40 and only when there is a visit from some of the so called bigger teams who bring a few with them would it reach or get near that target.

As for carrying on why not?  but there is no way that they will return to the SFL unless they have the money to do so and get a squad that can compete with the top 6 teams in the league at the moment.There is something to be said for being a Big Fish in a small pond but the South League is no "push over".

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Not Lowland League, but with Bury's current woes and the prospect of being chucked out of the league, the English Football League have confirmed that should League One be reduced to 23 teams, then one less team would be relegated at the end of the season.........just saying. 

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Not Lowland League, but with Bury's current woes and the prospect of being chucked out of the league, the English Football League have confirmed that should League One be reduced to 23 teams, then one less team would be relegated at the end of the season.........just saying. 
Not lowland league but if one less team is relegated in efl1 that would still mean 3 relegated.
Just saying.

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18 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Not lowland league but if one less team is relegated in efl1 that would still mean 3 relegated.
Just saying.

You spent months lying and dripping poison on here about a club.

That information, that you'd been fed by a "grade" acolyte  and then gleefully repeated like a Grade A twat made you look like a complete p***k.

You've never apologised.

Just saying.

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14 hours ago, Nimmo's Notes said:

Not Lowland League, but with Bury's current woes and the prospect of being chucked out of the league, the English Football League have confirmed that should League One be reduced to 23 teams, then one less team would be relegated at the end of the season.........just saying. 

I think that's the sensible approach if a team withdraws or gets chucked out. However, in the EFL that has been clearly set out in the league rules. Until last season the LL stated something different. Not that it mattered in the end due to Berwick's relegation though...

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Dalbeattie off the mark today after a win over Edinburgh Uni.

At this early stage there is an sense it could be a 4-way battle at the bottom with Dalbeattie, Edinburgh Uni, Gretna and Vale.

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On 24/08/2019 at 18:15, HibeeJibee said:

Dalbeattie off the mark today after a win over Edinburgh Uni.

At this early stage there is an sense it could be a 4-way battle at the bottom with Dalbeattie, Edinburgh Uni, Gretna and Vale.

A battle for what?  If Lowland League Champion goes up and Brechin or Elgin go down there'll all be there again next season.

There are clearly the haves and have nots in the Lowland League and no more clear than yesterday 6 easy wins that you could have picked with your eyes closed and 2 tight 1 goal wins.

The Lowland League has the ability to be a great competitive league though the gap between the bottom and top is getting silly and doesn't sell it well as an marketable product.

Especially that the whipping boys will be all there again for a few more seasons at least. 

At least one team to get relegated automatically no matter what permutation should be a minimum?

Possibly Vale will be leaving anyway due to Floodlights to push a vacancy application process, which is bizarre. 

Again then you would hope that the highest placing licensed EOS Premier league team would then gain entry under them circumstances.  

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13 minutes ago, Unknown Fan said:

A battle for what?  If Lowland League Champion goes up and Brechin or Elgin go down there'll all be there again next season.

There are clearly the haves and have nots in the Lowland League and no more clear than yesterday 6 easy wins that you could have picked with your eyes closed and 2 tight 1 goal wins.

The Lowland League has the ability to be a great competitive league though the gap between the bottom and top is getting silly and doesn't sell it well as an marketable product.

Especially that the whipping boys will be all there again for a few more seasons at least. 

At least one team to get relegated automatically no matter what permutation should be a minimum?

Possibly Vale will be leaving anyway due to Floodlights to push a vacancy application process, which is bizarre. 

Again then you would hope that the highest placing licensed EOS Premier league team would then gain entry under them circumstances.  

Here we go again!

Can you send me these easy  predictions every week please? Did you no see the coupon busting Kelty score the other week or EK midweek. 

Yer 1st paragraph reads nonsense as well. Bottom club LL always relegated. 

Al leave it at that as yer right yer knowledge of the LL is very much that of being the unknown  fan.

 

 

Edited by newcastle broon

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10 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Here we go again!

Can you send me these easy  predictions every week please? Did you no see the coupon busting Kelty score the other week or EK midweek. 

Yer 1st paragraph reads nonsense as well. Bottom club LL always relegated. 

Al leave it at that as yer right yer knowledge of the LL is very much that of being the unknown  fan.

 

 

Firstly, I'm not a gambling man though you know what I'm saying.

Secondly, I'm partly responding to the top of this thread, there are 3 permutations in a 16 team Lowland League where no team is relegated.

Am I reading it wrong or has it changed?

So you stand corrected or I?

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20 minutes ago, Unknown Fan said:

Firstly, I'm not a gambling man though you know what I'm saying.

Secondly, I'm partly responding to the top of this thread, there are 3 permutations in a 16 team Lowland League where no team is relegated.

Am I reading it wrong or has it changed?

So you stand corrected or I?

You’re right about the 3 permutations but I don’t know whether you’ve misunderstood ‘club relegated from SPFL’ which actually means ‘to the LL’  and your Elgin example happens in row 5, so at least an EOS team comes up .

For all practical purposes though, relegation of at least one club, or promotion of the EOS champion, is virtually certain. The circumstances leading to no relegation are mostly those that can apply in any league.

Edited by The Mantis

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4 minutes ago, The Mantis said:

You’re right about the 3 permutations but I think you’ve misunderstood ‘club relegated from SPFL’ which actually means ‘to the LL’  so your Elgin example is wrong.

For all practical purposes though, relegation of at least one club is virtually certain. The circumstances leading to no relegation are mostly those that can apply in any league.

You sure?  It reads 'SLFL'  being the Lowland League yeah?

So 3 permutations that no team team gets relegated.

This thread is Lowland league trapdoor, not League Two Trapdoor.

So for example, Elgin or Brechin go down, Kelty or Bonnyrigg go up, EOS/SOS playoff winner goes up.  Hence no relegation from SLFL.  

Seems a possible permutation.

My point being the bottom clubs in the Lowland league may battle all season, for no relegation, so no battle.  Bizarre.  No SLFL Trapdoor.

 

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1 minute ago, Unknown Fan said:

You sure?  It reads 'SLFL'  being the Lowland League yeah?

So 3 permutations that no team team gets relegated.

This thread is Lowland league trapdoor, not League Two Trapdoor.

So for example, Elgin or Brechin go down, Kelty or Bonnyrigg go up, EOS/SOS playoff winner goes up.  Hence no relegation from SLFL.  

Seems a possible permutation.

My point being the bottom clubs in the Lowland league may battle all season, for no relegation, so no battle.  Bizarre.  No SLFL Trapdoor.

 

Yeah, understood, my edit wasn’t quick enough 😂 (and I hope it’s acceptable ) 😉 

I think the debate on this thread,  and many others, has been as much about denying progressive clubs promotion as getting the bottom LL clubs in the bin, so apologies for not taking your post 100% at face value .

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45 minutes ago, Unknown Fan said:

Firstly, I'm not a gambling man though you know what I'm saying.

Secondly, I'm partly responding to the top of this thread, there are 3 permutations in a 16 team Lowland League where no team is relegated.

Am I reading it wrong or has it changed?

So you stand corrected or I?

I always thought "bottom club" was relegated regardless hence the confusion all last season when Selkirk dropped oot and ww became "bottom" club. 

That went on for months and canny see it being as complicated but good yer getting yer permutations in early. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

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You're muddying the waters NB.

System is simple 1-up-1-down... but, if ever required, an extra club is relegated to avoid 17-teams; or the relegated club is reprieved to avoid 15-teams:
image.png
Chap above evidently feels reprieves are undesirable... Alternative would be promote an extra club (albeit could mean EOSL-SOSL playoff 2nd leg ends and both discover they're up!).

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7 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

I always thought "bottom club" was relegated regardless hence the confusion all last season when Selkirk dropped oot and ww became "bottom" club. 

That went on for months and canny see it being as complicated but good yer getting yer permutations in early. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

The update they put in place this summer basically cleared up the rule they had in place. Before the way it could be interpreted was that if a club was promoted from the EoS/SoS Playoff it would trigger relegation, even if that would lead to a vacancy.

The update now removes the possibility of applications when at 16 clubs unless one scenario plays out.

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2 hours ago, Unknown Fan said:

You sure?  It reads 'SLFL'  being the Lowland League yeah?

So 3 permutations that no team team gets relegated.

This part of your answer puzzled me, but we had visitors in so I left it.

I think we’re at cross purposes here. I know fine there are 3 permutations. But I was referring to the headers at the top, where ‘club relegated from SPFL’ means ‘club relegated from SPFL to SLFL’. Unless I’m wrong, you seem to be referring to the bits in yellow, hence the confusion between SLFL and SPFL.

Edited by The Mantis

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Unknown Fan wrote that after a full season no teams may be relegated from this league. He is correct. 

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There are actually 4 permutations. The one option that leads to a vacancy would also mean that no club gets relegated.

Chances are there really is only one of those 4 options that could come into play. 8/16 clubs in the EoS Premier are licensed. There are others that could be title contenders that will be licensed as well. Threave have had a good start to the season in the SoS as well and could well supply a licensed champion there.

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Basically there are 3 ways of accommodating promotion/relegation in a pyramid system.

You couldn't find support for variable division sizes... going up to 17 would mean 4 extra midweek games per season, and going down to 15 would mean unhappiness from the level below that someone wasn't being asked to fill the gap. Plus if it happened for a few years running you would get wildly out of sync. Offhand I can't recall this being used part-way up any system.

In a Scottish context you couldn't find support for moving clubs from one league to another... Inverurie / Formartine playing in LL or Stirling / Kelty playing in HL would be seen as perverse.

That leaves you with the safetyvalve approach: an extra club is relegated, or a club reprieved, in order to keep divisions at their intended strength. Some do see the reprieve side as unfair though.

Within the EOS League the safetyvalve approach is also used: but without the reprieve side of it... In that league, an extra club is promoted from the First Division to the Premier Division, in the event of it being short of intended strength.

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As a way to increase relegation, maybe let the number 15 join a play-off with the highest licensed team in the East, West and South leagues (once the west are on board or there is a new west senior league). Play a round-robin and 1, 2 or 3 clubs play in next year's LL depending on the outcome of promotion/relegation with the SPFL. Play the last round at the same time or after the League 2 PO final second leg and all clubs know after the final whistle what league they will play in next season.

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