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Scotland vs Argentina - Wednesday 19th June, 8pm


HibsFan

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What’s next for using VaR then? Stopping every corner to check for a free kick? 

Unless the technology or interpreting it speeds up quickly the stop start nature will ruin any enjoyment of watching the game.  As mentioned above, fine for shit stop-start sports like rugby. 

 

The way Tennis use their Hawkeye thing is very good too, where each player gets 2 challenges per set and if they are correct they keep the 2 challenges.

 

It’s just bumbling, corrupt old football with all its money and brown envelopes who can’t get it right.

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21 minutes ago, printer said:

 

10 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Those of opposed to VAR foresaw this madness.

 

 


Indeed, it was always going to be a disaster.

 

VAR was always a case of 'be careful what you wish for'.

 

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12 minutes ago, bob_mcshug said:

I think what's worse here was that the keeper stepping off the line made no difference to the save as it was a tamely hit penalty. The basis for a retake then becomes questionable in the context of what advantage was actually gained by the infringement.

The rules or the interpretation of the rules need changed as that, and other new rules (such as handball) are ruining the game.

Sorry but this is totally wrong. There’s enough interpretation that causes issues in the game without adding that. You are on the line or not, saying “well she was off the line but would have saved it anyway” is a place no one wants to go.

VAR 100% needs binned btw. It’s not fit for purpose in football and never has been. It’s amazing how far out of their depth the women referees are though. Why weren’t males used? 

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Smith should have been subbed far earlier than she was. She was involved in some way in all 3 goals conceded.

1 Out of position at the first - pulled infield.

2 Gave the ball away for the second.

3 Was subbed when the Argentinians took the quick free kick that led to the penalty.

If she was subbed when we were 3-0 up I don't think we'd be having any discussion about VAR.

That's not to say that VAR is blameless - I think we saw last night that VAR combined with the current interpretation of the rules is also an issue - not just for this game but throughout this WC and the last WC.

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I don't have a tolerant attitude. I'm not that guy. I'm the guy that gets angry at people being asshats about women.

Ah, how chivalrous of you. A veritable knight in shining armour. Women the world over will feel so much safer and confident with you riding ahead forging their path. You are however somewhat prone to rushing in without thinking. No assessment of a situation, just leap to conclusions. You have no idea of intent in this case, and have demonstrated the same degree of ignorance and intolerance of which you protest. I showed my wife, two daughters and a few of their female friends and they said please thank Gordon, but we don’t need him in this instance, but he can be sure if we require his assistance to defend us in future we’ll be in contact with him.
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I would urge everyone on here who is adamant that the keeper was off her line when the penalty is struck, to watch the wee clip of the penalty saga on the BBC Scotland website. There is a camera angle which looks directly along the goal line. I stopped the video at the exact time the ball is hit, and the keeper’s feet are in line with the goal line. No dubiety, absolutely none. How five, or however many there are, referees in the VAR room can watch that and order a retake is insane, utterly insane.

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44 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

The real problem is VAR ruining the game. It wasn’t needed, it’s leading to as much, if not more, debate about decisions than we had pre VAR, while simultaneously ripping the passion for the game.  

This isn’t an attempt to abolish Scotland of any responsibility for the shit show that was last night, but the recriminations against the team and the manager can wait, VAR should be called out at every possible opportunity. It’s fucking shite, and for members of the Conservative and Unionist party.

I don't think VAR in itself is the issue, it's how it is being used that is causing problems. Use it to fix glaring, obvious mistakes. Don't use it to change decisions that are debatable even when consulting VAR.

As for the womens team, last night was about as "Peak Scotland" as a Scottish football team can get. Very unlucky to have wound up in a group with England and Japan, looked to have done enough to keep themselves in it when they went 3-0 up, then conspired to absolutely "Scotland at a big tournament" it and fucked themselves royally when it seemed impossible to think it would happen.

All the same, first World Cup for them and definite signs that they are a potentially top class side in the womens game. Just need to hope that finish doesn't rattle their confidence too much.

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1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

There are lots of different angles of the penalty, including several which suggest that she was much closer to the line than this, if not even on it. The only angle which can conclusively tell is the one looking along the line, and I haven't seen that. If the VAR team are using the angle above to make their decision then they are not doing their job properly, because it's not conclusive in any way.

Watch the BBC clip about the penalty issue. It’s there.

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4 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

Watch the BBC clip about the penalty issue. It’s there.

I have just watched it and I have no idea what you are about, unless we are watching different things. There is no view looking along the line.

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Why did the referee not review the footage of Alexander coming off her line, I though VAR could only ask her to review decisions not make them for her? And who chooses what is reviewed and what's not because the official with the best view of the penalty, the assistant, was 2 yards from Alexander could hear the kick taken and clearly saw Alexander on her line or she would have flagged stright away. 

I'm still gutted this morning but being 3 goals up is pretty inexcusable. Anyone know when and where they are flying back into I might head along to the airport

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I have just watched it and I have no idea what you are about, unless we are watching different things. There is no view looking along the line.
There is, actually.

Unfortunately for Kingjoey it's from the penalty that actually went in.
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1 hour ago, ali_91 said:

The real problem is VAR ruining the game. It wasn’t needed, it’s leading to as much, if not more, debate about decisions than we had pre VAR, while simultaneously ripping the passion for the game.  

This isn’t an attempt to abolish Scotland of any responsibility for the shit show that was last night, but the recriminations against the team and the manager can wait, VAR should be called out at every possible opportunity. It’s fucking shite, and for members of the Conservative and Unionist party.

While this is arguably true, VAR worked perfectly well last night.  There have been instances - including the Champions League final - when the reviewed decision has been so much of a nonsense it's ruined the game.  But that's because of the law changes, specifically  handball.  

While Shelley Kerr can deflect as much as she wants, VAR didn't affect the game - or Scotland's success - at all, with the one exception of the non-referral of the hand ball against Japan; a decision which was clearly correct except that the laws have changed and hand ball is now a complete joke.  It's the law changes that have ruined VAR.

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Is there an arguement to be made that if we are going to usw VAR, we should commit fully and remove the step about the ref on the pitch having to go over and review etc etc. That seems to take up all the time.

The final decision having to rest with the ref on the pitch seems like a bit of a needless insertion to dilute the impact to non believers.

Not saying it should or shouldnt, just wondering if its a way to improve what we have

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4 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

While this is arguably true, VAR worked perfectly well last night.  There have been instances - including the Champions League final - when the reviewed decision has been so much of a nonsense it's ruined the game.  But that's because of the law changes, specifically  handball.  

While Shelley Kerr can deflect as much as she wants, VAR didn't affect the game - or Scotland's success - at all, with the one exception of the non-referral of the hand ball against Japan; a decision which was clearly correct except that the laws have changed and hand ball is now a complete joke.  It's the law changes that have ruined VAR.

I dislike VAR but you're right, it did work fine last night. I dispute the rule around keepers on their line but it is the rule and it was applied.

The most outrageous thing about the whole episode was the lack of injury time. Absolutely beyond me how the ref thought that was appropriate.

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4 minutes ago, Savage Henry said:

While this is arguably true, VAR worked perfectly well last night.

If it worked perfectly then we would have been provided with conclusive evidence that the biggest call of the night was actually correct. If, as appears to be the case, a massive game-changing and tournament-changing decision has been made on the basis of footage from a series of questionable angles, then the system is clearly not working. If they had an angle that actually proved it was right then I suspect FIFA would have shared it by now.

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Just now, craigkillie said:

If it worked perfectly then we would have been provided with conclusive evidence that the biggest call of the night was actually correct. If, as appears to be the case, a massive game-changing and tournament-changing decision has been made on the basis of footage from a series of questionable angles, then the system is clearly not working. If they had an angle that actually proved it was right then I suspect FIFA would have shared it by now.

While it is strange they haven't shared it surely they have it if they have it for the scored penalty?

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1 minute ago, Muzza81 said:

While it is strange they haven't shared it surely they have it if they have it for the scored penalty?

I guess so (though it is possible they only moved/activated something after the first one).

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Scotland deserve to go out.

The competence of VAR is a completely different topic. I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it. VAR is a fantastic concept that I am 100% behind, but is horribly put into practice. There are so many things that FIFA could be doing that would prevent confusion, both for officials and fans - big screen replays, timer stopping, challenge system, a GENUINE plan of when to use it - but they insist on adding shitey wee rules like this goalkeeper one (don't get me started on handball) that just enhance confusion. It's almost as if they are deliberately making the system worse.

Now if we are getting persnickety about penalties. What about encroachment? Almost every other penalty has a player inside the box as it is being taken. These are rarely retaken, and I certainly can't think of an instance where VAR has led to it being retaken. My point is, you can't enforce some rules and ignore others.

And if you think we got shafted... go check the highlights of France v Nigeria.

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2 hours ago, kingjoey said:

Both feet are in mid air, which is allowed so long as at least one foot is above the line. There is absolutely no way that anyone can say from that shot that this is not the case.

If you were watching the fraction of a second before that you'd see and appreciate that she jumped forward with both feet, the instant I watched that angle I posted oh dear, the officials took ages to agree, why I've no idea, it was clear and obvious.

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