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I dunno what kind of crowds y'all get in the deep south - except at Talbot, who attract millions to each game - but it sounds like it would be a real eye-opener for a few folk to cart their arses up to the Shire and see how many folk attend NRJFA matches, and consider once again why so many have zero interest in the pyramid. 

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If you want to sit in the executive box seats, you have to bring your own.

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But with a better view.

Edited by Snafu

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On 24/06/2019 at 18:33, Robert James said:

I thought BoD had a good level of support, compared with all the other north juniors. What is their average attendance ?

Serious question Ed

Others have answered  pretty much perfectly.

Part of the problem is the North Juniors seem to be run entirely for the benefit of the North Juniors. Big league games, cup semi-finals and finals come and go and Joe Soap is blissfully ignorant of it. They seem to make no effort whatsoever to engage with the public. Doesn't help of course that local media make no effort to publicize games or league positions or anything else but then again the impression is that the North Juniors don't really care if they get coverage or not. Their social media seems to be utterly abysmal too.

A someone said further up, the reason for their reticence regarding the pyramid is there for all to see and it's because they're in a bubble and have no interest in looking beyond it. It's a pity because Dyce, Bridge of Don, Banks o Dee, Sunnybank, Ellon, Stonehaven and a couple others have the potential to enhance the SHFL.

 

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9 hours ago, EdTheDuck said:

Others have answered  pretty much perfectly.

Part of the problem is the North Juniors seem to be run entirely for the benefit of the North Juniors. Big league games, cup semi-finals and finals come and go and Joe Soap is blissfully ignorant of it. They seem to make no effort whatsoever to engage with the public. Doesn't help of course that local media make no effort to publicize games or league positions or anything else but then again the impression is that the North Juniors don't really care if they get coverage or not. Their social media seems to be utterly abysmal too.

A someone said further up, the reason for their reticence regarding the pyramid is there for all to see and it's because they're in a bubble and have no interest in looking beyond it. It's a pity because Dyce, Bridge of Don, Banks o Dee, Sunnybank, Ellon, Stonehaven and a couple others have the potential to enhance the SHFL.

 

Half right, many of these clubs only exist to provide a level of football for footballers in an area between the amateur leagues and the semi pro HL. Its a struggle from year to year for many especially those smaller clubs that don't have any other form of income (social clubs) and rely entirely on the hard work committee members put in to keep the clubs alive, very often digging into their own pockets. Its for the love of the game, but its a struggle. But yes many of these clubs don't want to go any further than Junior football, simply because there isn't the foundation for many of these clubs to do so. There's a good long list of North Junior clubs that have died in the last 20 years some existing clubs have come close to falling of the cliff in recent times like Sunnybank so unless clubs have serious backing and decent numbers turning up they aren't going to look at turning semi pro to play in the HL.

 

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Many of the Junior clubs in the North that had the potential to step up to the Highland League successfully have already done so. @Snafu has summed up the North Juniors pretty well, it's a different setup to the West (and the old East), a platform for playing at a level not too much above amateur for the bigger clubs, but essentially amateur for the lower division ones.

With only a fifth of Scotland's population spread across such a large area, the standard tapers off rapidly. It's why any pyramid needs to take this into account.

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12 hours ago, EdTheDuck said:

Part of the problem is the North Juniors seem to be run entirely for the benefit of the North Juniors.

Don't see this as a problem tbh. 

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On 24/06/2019 at 18:33, Robert James said:

I thought BoD had a good level of support, compared with all the other north juniors. What is their average attendance ?

Serious question Ed

An interesting insight into the North Juniors in general,although my specific question was about  BoD's  attendances, as I was surprised that they don't have the ambition to enter the HFL. However, if their home attendances are poor, then it might explain why they no longer seek promotion ?     

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4 hours ago, Robert James said:

An interesting insight into the North Juniors in general,although my specific question was about  BoD's  attendances, as I was surprised that they don't have the ambition to enter the HFL. However, if their home attendances are poor, then it might explain why they no longer seek promotion ?     

It’s all got a whiff of the West Lothian section of the East Juniors... teams only exist to stroke the egos of certain mid-aged men, with no ambition to create anything special outwith their own little bubble... shame really

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On 28/06/2019 at 10:21, welshbairn said:

Don't see this as a problem tbh. 

In terms of the pyramid it is the problem. They're not interested in the pyramid because they run the North Juniors for the sake of the North Juniors. Not for fans and not for the greater good of Scottish Football (if that is what the pyramid represents), just for whatever the North Juniors are.

It will ultimately make the pyramid a mockery. Dozens & dozens of South clubs battling to play off against the same 3 or 4 HFL with rich benefactors. That could be changed by North Junior clubs run along the lines of Cove Rangers with the ambition of Cove Rangers. Doesn't look likely though, eh?

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32 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

In terms of the pyramid it is the problem. They're not interested in the pyramid because they run the North Juniors for the sake of the North Juniors. Not for fans and not for the greater good of Scottish Football (if that is what the pyramid represents), just for whatever the North Juniors are.

It will ultimately make the pyramid a mockery. Dozens & dozens of South clubs battling to play off against the same 3 or 4 HFL with rich benefactors. That could be changed by North Junior clubs run along the lines of Cove Rangers with the ambition of Cove Rangers. Doesn't look likely though, eh?

No, there weren't enough benefactors in the Highlands to let Inverness City buy a new stadium, that's for sure. The North Juniors are amateurs in all but name, but for one or two exceptions in Aberdeenshire. There has to be a cut off point for a pyramid somewhere, I'd say that point is where nobody wants or feels able to join. If the South feel hard done by in terms of promotion spots to the SPFL I'd suggest splitting the LL into East and West and having a 3 way playoff with automatic promotion for the winner. Should be easy given the abundance of committed and financially well equipped clubs down there.

Edited by welshbairn

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You're never going to have an equal North\South pyramid anyway due to several factors.  The main one being there's about 5 times more teams in the  Lowland/South catchment area than the North/Highland one.

Scotland is very lop-sided population wise, ego the amount of football clubs will be too.  Wishing the North Juniors to get their act together is never going to happen as Welshbairn and others have said, they aren't interested.

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1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

You're never going to have an equal North\South pyramid anyway due to several factors.  The main one being there's about 5 times more teams in the  Lowland/South catchment area than the North/Highland one.

Scotland is very lop-sided population wise, ego the amount of football clubs will be too.  Wishing the North Juniors to get their act together is never going to happen as Welshbairn and others have said, they aren't interested.

If you restrict it to just senior non-leagues and juniors it basically 2-1 in favour of the South of Tay. Not 5 times.

75 HFL/NCL/NRJFA/ERJFA north of Tay

155 LL/EOS/SOS/WRJFA/ERJFA south of tay

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Seems a lot more than that.  The WRJFA seems to have about 8 tiers these days.

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17 HFL, 10 NCL, 32 NRJFA, 16 North NRJFA.

16 LL, 40 EOS, 16 SOS, 63 WRJFA, 20 South ERJFA.

A 3 way split at Tier 5 would be pretty decent.

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Brora were my team when I lived in the highlands so I’d like to see them win it.

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To line up up with the Lowland League, next season the bottom 2 sides should be relegated to a new HL2 which could be set up  through applications from North Juniors and NCL. Will be able to get at least another 8 sides to form the league.

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5 minutes ago, edinabear said:

To line up up with the Lowland League, next season the bottom 2 sides should be relegated to a new HL2 which could be set up  through applications from North Juniors and NCL. Will be able to get at least another 8 sides to form the league.

I'm surprised no one has come up with this cunning plan before...

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Split the HL 10/9 with 9 teams in HL2...announce it early in the season.

Ask any clubs willing to join to do so as early as possible.

Then, when the 3rd new team accepted, the 11th and 12th placed teams go to HL1. If/When the 5th team are accepted, 13th and 14th go to HL...

Edited by Spyro

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1 hour ago, Jacksgranda said:

I'm surprised no one has come up with this cunning plan before...

Has anyone actually tried to put this in place?

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There’s no interest, people. The SHFL is utterly allergic to any change whatsoever. Add that to the utter disinterest in the NCL and North juniors and all the nice pyramid diagrams won’t ever make it off the page.

Banks O’Dee might be half interested. Beyond that, no change in the foreseeable future.

Brora, Broch, Formartine the front runners this season, with Brora the favourites IMO.

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