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On 24/06/2019 at 18:33, Robert James said:

I thought BoD had a good level of support, compared with all the other north juniors. What is their average attendance ?

Serious question Ed

An interesting insight into the North Juniors in general,although my specific question was about  BoD's  attendances, as I was surprised that they don't have the ambition to enter the HFL. However, if their home attendances are poor, then it might explain why they no longer seek promotion ?     

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4 hours ago, Robert James said:

An interesting insight into the North Juniors in general,although my specific question was about  BoD's  attendances, as I was surprised that they don't have the ambition to enter the HFL. However, if their home attendances are poor, then it might explain why they no longer seek promotion ?     

It’s all got a whiff of the West Lothian section of the East Juniors... teams only exist to stroke the egos of certain mid-aged men, with no ambition to create anything special outwith their own little bubble... shame really

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On 28/06/2019 at 10:21, welshbairn said:

Don't see this as a problem tbh. 

In terms of the pyramid it is the problem. They're not interested in the pyramid because they run the North Juniors for the sake of the North Juniors. Not for fans and not for the greater good of Scottish Football (if that is what the pyramid represents), just for whatever the North Juniors are.

It will ultimately make the pyramid a mockery. Dozens & dozens of South clubs battling to play off against the same 3 or 4 HFL with rich benefactors. That could be changed by North Junior clubs run along the lines of Cove Rangers with the ambition of Cove Rangers. Doesn't look likely though, eh?

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32 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

In terms of the pyramid it is the problem. They're not interested in the pyramid because they run the North Juniors for the sake of the North Juniors. Not for fans and not for the greater good of Scottish Football (if that is what the pyramid represents), just for whatever the North Juniors are.

It will ultimately make the pyramid a mockery. Dozens & dozens of South clubs battling to play off against the same 3 or 4 HFL with rich benefactors. That could be changed by North Junior clubs run along the lines of Cove Rangers with the ambition of Cove Rangers. Doesn't look likely though, eh?

No, there weren't enough benefactors in the Highlands to let Inverness City buy a new stadium, that's for sure. The North Juniors are amateurs in all but name, but for one or two exceptions in Aberdeenshire. There has to be a cut off point for a pyramid somewhere, I'd say that point is where nobody wants or feels able to join. If the South feel hard done by in terms of promotion spots to the SPFL I'd suggest splitting the LL into East and West and having a 3 way playoff with automatic promotion for the winner. Should be easy given the abundance of committed and financially well equipped clubs down there.

Edited by welshbairn
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You're never going to have an equal North\South pyramid anyway due to several factors.  The main one being there's about 5 times more teams in the  Lowland/South catchment area than the North/Highland one.

Scotland is very lop-sided population wise, ego the amount of football clubs will be too.  Wishing the North Juniors to get their act together is never going to happen as Welshbairn and others have said, they aren't interested.

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1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

You're never going to have an equal North\South pyramid anyway due to several factors.  The main one being there's about 5 times more teams in the  Lowland/South catchment area than the North/Highland one.

Scotland is very lop-sided population wise, ego the amount of football clubs will be too.  Wishing the North Juniors to get their act together is never going to happen as Welshbairn and others have said, they aren't interested.

If you restrict it to just senior non-leagues and juniors it basically 2-1 in favour of the South of Tay. Not 5 times.

75 HFL/NCL/NRJFA/ERJFA north of Tay

155 LL/EOS/SOS/WRJFA/ERJFA south of tay

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  • 3 weeks later...

To line up up with the Lowland League, next season the bottom 2 sides should be relegated to a new HL2 which could be set up  through applications from North Juniors and NCL. Will be able to get at least another 8 sides to form the league.

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5 minutes ago, edinabear said:

To line up up with the Lowland League, next season the bottom 2 sides should be relegated to a new HL2 which could be set up  through applications from North Juniors and NCL. Will be able to get at least another 8 sides to form the league.

I'm surprised no one has come up with this cunning plan before...

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Split the HL 10/9 with 9 teams in HL2...announce it early in the season.

Ask any clubs willing to join to do so as early as possible.

Then, when the 3rd new team accepted, the 11th and 12th placed teams go to HL1. If/When the 5th team are accepted, 13th and 14th go to HL...

Edited by Spyro
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There’s no interest, people. The SHFL is utterly allergic to any change whatsoever. Add that to the utter disinterest in the NCL and North juniors and all the nice pyramid diagrams won’t ever make it off the page.

Banks O’Dee might be half interested. Beyond that, no change in the foreseeable future.

Brora, Broch, Formartine the front runners this season, with Brora the favourites IMO.

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4 minutes ago, edinabear said:

Has anyone actually tried to put this in place?

Yes. In early 2014 a proposal to go to 2 divisions was voted on in advance of the SPFL pyramid coming into effect from 2014-15. It was meant to be 2x Divisions of 10 playing each other twice. With the League Cup adding groups to bulk up the number of games with Championship & Promotion play-offs and another cup. Then there was also the idea of playing each other three times a season instead. This early attempt is usually called the "Stables Plan".

It got shot down in a vote. Then the basic idea has been revived a couple of times. While the HFL have voted to split into 2x Divisions if they exceed 20 clubs, the idea of two small divisions isn't a popular enough idea for them to pursue under their own steam.

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8 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

There’s no interest, people. The SHFL is utterly allergic to any change whatsoever. Add that to the utter disinterest in the NCL and North juniors and all the nice pyramid diagrams won’t ever make it off the page.

Banks O’Dee might be half interested. Beyond that, no change in the foreseeable future.

Brora, Broch, Formartine the front runners this season, with Brora the favourites IMO.

The NCL are interested in joining the pyramid. The North Juniors aren't though and that's stopping the NCL from joining.

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I play in the North Region Juniors and it is what it is. It's a halfway house between Highland League and amateur football. There are a couple of teams I have played who really are poor and are amateur level but that's just one or two. The top amateur league has teams who would compete in the NRJFA bottom tier but then Banks of Dee would be a top 5 Highland League team I reckon and Culter, Dyce, Bridge of Don, Montrose Roselea are better than the worst highland league teams. It's essentially for guys who all want to take their football relatively seriously, can all play to a reasonably capable level and want to be part of a structured team. Training twice a week etc. The travelling in the Highland league is a lot more. I'm not sure what people expect from about the 7th Tier of a 5 million country. I will leave my team unnamed but there are a handful of people who support/follow us and it means a lot to them. That's what this level of football is about though. We will sit in the social club/bar after the game with these guys and they will speak to us about the game and they genuinely care about the results/how the club is getting on and they will help out with putting up nets etc with the groundsman and the committee so the players don't have to get involved in that side of it. They are more involved/connected than if they watched a bigger club. Every team has to have their own pitch which is fenced off etc which just makes the whole playing experience more enjoyable. I  play Junior football because I enjoy football being competitive rather than pulling my hair out playing with my mates on a council pitch where the ball of an adjacent pitch makes its way on etc. People can criticise it all they like but it does provide a good medium for people like myself who are by no means superstars and dont want any financial reward but can play a bit. I have played in/seen cup/playoff matches where the attendances have hit a few hundred. I think the thing with attendances is that the only people who care about Juniors are people involved and a handful who go to each game. Then when a cup game gets played when no other games are on people of other teams go along and watch.

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1 hour ago, ScottishZizou said:

I play in the North Region Juniors and it is what it is. It's a halfway house between Highland League and amateur football. There are a couple of teams I have played who really are poor and are amateur level but that's just one or two. The top amateur league has teams who would compete in the NRJFA bottom tier but then Banks of Dee would be a top 5 Highland League team I reckon and Culter, Dyce, Bridge of Don, Montrose Roselea are better than the worst highland league teams. It's essentially for guys who all want to take their football relatively seriously, can all play to a reasonably capable level and want to be part of a structured team. Training twice a week etc. The travelling in the Highland league is a lot more. I'm not sure what people expect from about the 7th Tier of a 5 million country. I will leave my team unnamed but there are a handful of people who support/follow us and it means a lot to them. That's what this level of football is about though. We will sit in the social club/bar after the game with these guys and they will speak to us about the game and they genuinely care about the results/how the club is getting on and they will help out with putting up nets etc with the groundsman and the committee so the players don't have to get involved in that side of it. They are more involved/connected than if they watched a bigger club. Every team has to have their own pitch which is fenced off etc which just makes the whole playing experience more enjoyable. I  play Junior football because I enjoy football being competitive rather than pulling my hair out playing with my mates on a council pitch where the ball of an adjacent pitch makes its way on etc. People can criticise it all they like but it does provide a good medium for people like myself who are by no means superstars and dont want any financial reward but can play a bit. I have played in/seen cup/playoff matches where the attendances have hit a few hundred. I think the thing with attendances is that the only people who care about Juniors are people involved and a handful who go to each game. Then when a cup game gets played when no other games are on people of other teams go along and watch.

Great post Zizou.  Really sums up what the Juniors are all about, a good grade of football to be involved in.

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Yes a very interesting post there, thanks.

But there's no reason that it applies especially to the juniors as "a grade", whatever that means. All those things listed apply to HL, LL, EoS, SoS just as much, and there's absolutely no reason they would not carry on being true as a member of the HFL as opposed to the NRJ.

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