Belgium vs Scotland

[TheScarf]

Where are all the players from the Colonies in that starting XI from last night?

[jamamafegan]

Folk already had us down for getting an absolute spanking even before that team was announced. And the players that did play, they didn’t play too bad against the highest ranked team in the world. It was an organised performance. We were guilty of switching off and not taking a glorious chance. 3-0 was harsh, I know that it could have been more but to concede a third so late on was a bit harsh.

We move on. It was a game we were probably never going to draw, never mind win. The main thing is we didn’t make a complete embarrassment of ourselves. That’s where we are just now. I trust in SSC to work with the squad and have us ready to go for it in September.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

23 minutes ago, stumigoo said:

Belgium are on a different planet and last night was always going to end up with them winning, it did however please me that we looked a bit more combative (albeit we were camped out for 90% of the match). As others have mentioned it isn't the best game to judge and neither was the Cyprus game given how little time Clarke had with the group. I also think that games at this stage of the year are always a challenge given the season has just ended.

The Russia game in September will be the first true test for Clarke. 

We have a decent pool of players in the midfield but other areas we are severely lacking. Other than our left-backs we are very thin on the ground at the back and our goalkeeping position is looking weak (although Marshall, IMO, played well last night). We still definitely need someone to be able to hold the ball up at the top end of the pitch and although Burke physically is very impressive he is so inconsistent that he probably isn't the answer. Griffiths, if he recovers fully, will make a difference. 

We've got the makings of a solid enough team under the right manager and I believe Clarke can be that man. 

A decent, balanced post. 

I would point out though that we've been severely lacking in defensive quality for almost 30 years now, and not much better off with strikers and attacking midfielders.

I'm interested to know why people think that Griffiths return will solve the issue of a forward holding the ball up. He's not that type of player, and  anyway, outside 2 free kicks against England has generally been anonymous in a Scotland shirt. If he's played with another forward alongside him then that's another matter, but I've no idea if Clarke has that in mind for his Scotland teams.

The fact is, outside Robertson, we pretty much have an international side full of journeymen, Championship level footballers. 

Clarke's task is to effectively turn us into Northern Ireland. If he can do that, he'll have succeeded. It sounds un-glamorous, but that's where we are at this moment. 

 

[Empty It]

Dear Steve Clarke,
Do not pick any Kilmarnock players again you fucking idiot. 
Thanks 
 

Who would you have had at both full back positions instead?

[Smokerson]

The last two games saw a significant improvement in a plan, system, organisation, not many call offs and a more general positive feeling about the squad.

Bringing back Mulgrew and Marshall were good decisions firstly, I liked the team he picked on Saturday, felt it was thought through properly and suited the style and system rather than trying to shoe horn players in. Last night was a bit strange, especially the inclusion of Russell in a wide area which just did not work, however I suppose that he had to have a look at the majority of the players and he did say last week that he would have a lot to learn about international football and that he would make mistakes which I thought was refreshingly honest.

Agree that the Russia game is a big test.

[Cptn Hooch]

9 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

 

The fact is, outside Robertson, we pretty much have an international side full of journeymen, Championship level footballers. 

 

Can't say I agree with that. We have Ryan Fraser, Scott McTominay and Stuart Armstrong who all play in the same league as Robertson with McLean and McGinn joining them from next season. Robertson has also flattered to deceive a bit in a Scotland shirt at times. Not saying he isn't a great player but I don't think we missed him last night and the boy Taylor filled the gap brilliantly.

 

If we look at the recipe for Belgium's (and most nations) success it's a core group of players brought through the youth ranks together, playing the same style at each level. Blood them into the national side fairly early (we play plenty of meaningless friendlies so why not use these?) alongside a few experienced players. I think our team last night had less than 150 caps between them....Hazard has had about 100 himself. Clarke made some bold decisions but I think he's been right in doing so...we needed to get away from the likes of Allan McGregor, Scott Brown and Steven Fletcher and bring in newer players. Other nations have capped players who barely play for their clubs like Foden and Hudson-Odoi for England, we should be looking to bring in hungry young players regardless of where they play their football. Guys like Halkett, Taylor, McNulty, Griffiths, McKenna, Soutar, Bates etc should have been in and around the squad for a while now so they develop an understanding with each other and get used to international football.

[Detournement]

Leigh Griffiths?

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, Estragon is a fud said:

No Premier League player starting two games in a row? Another """"""""injury"""""""" for Robertson? 

 

Clarke clearly shat it from the Premier League managers.

Stuart Armstrong started.

[nsr]

9 hours ago, KillieMogwai said:

Lewis Morgan and Glenn Middleton seem to be the next big hopes. Hastie at Motherwell (if he's still at Motherwell?), too.

Can't think of any on the right. Does Chris Burke count?

He signed a pre-contract with the ****. Unlikely to feature at the top level again.

[Bairnardo]

Didnt manage to watch lastnight but us playing against this Belgium side is roughly similar to Celtic playing Barcelona in the Champions League, its almost impossible for dross like us to pull off a shock against a team like that. Football has changed a lot in the last few years and the gap between elite players like they have and ours is widening.

International football is kind of generational too and what they are seeing now could be the absolute pinnacle of "golden generation" type patter. They are simply levels above the huge majority of teams on the planet.

Basically, its a game to forget as there was never anything to be gained IMO.

[Dons_1988]

16 minutes ago, Estragon is a fud said:

And? 

Well it debunked your first sentence and the rest of the post was rubbish too. That's all. As you were.

[Kelheart]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Pretty much this.

I wanted Clarke appointed and obviously remain, firmly behind him.

Last night however, he picked a bizarre looking side, and we were duly horsed.  Those highlighting apparent positives are doing so because they like Clarke, rather than because of anything they objectively saw in the game.

Thought we were average at best , school boy at first , no shutting down at third , aimless punts up the park , all for Clarke and the guys he’s giving chances to but just not good enough at this level to compete with the likes of Belgium if we set out just not to loose too many goals imo

[Dons_1988]

4 minutes ago, Estragon is a fud said:

No it didn't.  Armstrong started 1 game. Not two.

 

Apologise. 

Oh I see, English is your problem then. Never mind.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

5 minutes ago, Kelheart said:

Thought we were average at best , school boy at first , no shutting down at third , aimless punts up the park , all for Clarke and the guys he’s giving chances to but just not good enough at this level to compete with the likes of Belgium if we set out just not to loose too many goals imo

To be fair, there are not many teams at the same level as Belgium. 

We're a million miles away from that standard ,and at the moment we're much closer to the likes of San Marino than we are to Belgium unfortunately.

The job of Clarke is to improve us. We're not going to become Belgium, or Germany or England, but if he can get us up there competing and getting results against the 2nd/3rd tier countries such as Ireland, Denmark, Slovakia, Poland etc, then he'll have done his job.

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Bob Mahelp

[DukDukGoose]

Thought we gave a good account of ourselves. We were up against one of the best teams in the world with an inexperienced team at this level. A few of the players switched off at the first goal which is disappointing but we looked organised and everyone seemed to know their job.

Don't understand the doom and gloom. It's not like we're matching them player for player ability wise.

[stumigoo]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

A decent, balanced post. 

I would point out though that we've been severely lacking in defensive quality for almost 30 years now, and not much better off with strikers and attacking midfielders.

I'm interested to know why people think that Griffiths return will solve the issue of a forward holding the ball up. He's not that type of player, and  anyway, outside 2 free kicks against England has generally been anonymous in a Scotland shirt. If he's played with another forward alongside him then that's another matter, but I've no idea if Clarke has that in mind for his Scotland teams.

The fact is, outside Robertson, we pretty much have an international side full of journeymen, Championship level footballers. 

Clarke's task is to effectively turn us into Northern Ireland. If he can do that, he'll have succeeded. It sounds un-glamorous, but that's where we are at this moment. 

 

I think with Griffiths he offers us the ability to play down the channels, he wouldn't be the hold up striker in a traditional sense but could play with three attacking midfielders around him and he is probably better at movement in the box in comparison to the others in that position. 

Agree that Clarke's job is to turn us into the NI, ROI type team that has seen both of those countries achieve well over the last 5 or 6 years. I would argue that when everyone is fit we are better than both of those nations so it will all be down to Clarke and the ability to organise and motivate (both of these are strengths I think Clarke possesses).

The point about levels I think is valid but I would go beyond Robertson and argue that certainly Fraser has a bit of development left in him and could become a very good Premiership player (he has shown this season what he can do). Tierney potentially, but of course Scotland have a headache about what to do with Robertson and Tierney. There are one or two others who could still go on to have good careers at Premiership level (McTominay, Armstrong) and some who fit into a category probably just above Championship level (McGregor being one).

[Smokerson]

I am not sure Griffiths will ever return to play at this level, he seems to have all sorts of problems, to think that he is going to have some sort of Tyson Fury recovery is wishful thinking. Shame

[accies1874]

Pretty much went how I expected it to.
There were certainly positives: the McLean/McTominay partnership looks promising in games like that, Taylor didn't look out of place, the shape was good and the way Clarke intended to counter was good. I think he wanted the midfield two to start counter-attacks by playing in tight areas to buy some time for the forwards, but sometimes there wasn't enough composure from the defenders or the pressing from Belgium was overwhelming.
I didn't think McLean would play either game so I'm surprised to say he was my favourite player in both. He was classy and composed on the ball and was better off it than I initially thought.
McTominay showed a lot of quality but did tire towards the end.
I'll need to see the goals again, but they seemed to come from a lack of concentration as opposed to disorganisation.
I'll be honest, as we were getting closer to half-time I thought we were gonna scrape a 0-0, but didn't have any hope as soon as Lukaku got his first.

[FullTimePint]

I remember when Gordon Strachan gave it the 'we arent genetically big enough' chat after we failed in the last campaign, there was a little bit of me thought he was right. Physically at time we looked smaller and less athletic than some of the opposition we were against, and surely that would make a difference when you are looking for the edge in the 1v1 battles around the pitch.

Then last night i watched Oli Burke. The Guy is an athletic specimen pace to burn and a decent physique. But he has no idea about match management or what looks like any game sense. That technical ability and know-how probably undermines any split second advantage his pace buys him, as he constantly seemed to be in the wrong place, making the wrong pass.. everything just seemed off. To the extent that i question, has he developed a career upfront based purely on the fact he is fast?

I remember seeing him for Forrest a good few years ago and im sure he was an attacking RB, for me he needs to work his way back there. This would suit him to still utilise his pace and physique, and would help us with a problem area in the squad. I am doubtful he will ever establish himself as an out and out forward, or indeed as a winger.

[Kuro]

20 minutes ago, FullTimePint said:

I remember when Gordon Strachan gave it the 'we arent genetically big enough' chat after we failed in the last campaign, there was a little bit of me thought he was right. Physically at time we looked smaller and less athletic than some of the opposition we were against, and surely that would make a difference when you are looking for the edge in the 1v1 battles around the pitch.

Then last night i watched Oli Burke. The Guy is an athletic specimen pace to burn and a decent physique. But he has no idea about match management or what looks like any game sense. That technical ability and know-how probably undermines any split second advantage his pace buys him, as he constantly seemed to be in the wrong place, making the wrong pass.. everything just seemed off. To the extent that i question, has he developed a career upfront based purely on the fact he is fast?

I remember seeing him for Forrest a good few years ago and im sure he was an attacking RB, for me he needs to work his way back there. This would suit him to still utilise his pace and physique, and would help us with a problem area in the squad. I am doubtful he will ever establish himself as an out and out forward, or indeed as a winger.

He doesn't have the game intelligence to play at the back imo.