Scotland vs Cyprus saturday match thread

[accies1874]

I'm fine with negativity if it's justified. Booing the team at half-time of the new manager's first game, in which we haven't played too badly, when he hasn't had long to pick the squad and train with them, against an organised side, isn't justified.
For context: tonight Steve Clarke became the first manager not named Alex McLeish to win his first competitive game in charge this millennium.

[ekok]

OMG we are truly gubbed when scraping a last minute win at home against the team ranked 102 in the world, is seen as any sort of success. 

I will never boo our  players or staff, but we need to engage our collective brains. Criticism is not necessarily being negative,  it can be the catalyst for improvement. 

This is our National Game, we have better attendance and participation stats than most countries,  per capita. Yes the Cubs have far too big an influence with their corrosive self interest the absolute blot on our landscape.  But we must aspire to do the best we can, not settle for indifferent mediocrity. Playing two up front at home against Cyprus would have been a better start for the new regime

 

 

 

 

[MarkoRaj]

6 minutes ago, ekok said:

OMG we are truly gubbed when scraping a last minute win at home against the team ranked 102 in the world, is seen as any sort of success. 

I will never boo our  players or staff, but we need to engage our collective brains. Criticism is not necessarily being negative,  it can be the catalyst for improvement. 

This is our National Game, we have better attendance and participation stats than most countries,  per capita. Yes the Cubs have far too big an influence with their corrosive self interest the absolute blot on our landscape.  But we must aspire to do the best we can, not settle for indifferent mediocrity. Playing two up front at home against Cyprus would have been a better start for the new regime

 

 

 

 

Four four fucking two amirite

[Derry Alli]

2 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

he needs someone - he was isolated and the midfield did him no favours. the one decent cross of the evening happened to fall to Burke.

No, he doesn't 'need someone'. He either fits the formation or he can f**k off. He shouldn't be in the squad - and wouldn't be if it wasn't for Clarke (who, in theory should know him best). This is a team game, we set up with him up top but he never made one single dent in the game. He never tried to get involved, he never tried to link play. In fact, the only thi g he done all game was look straight along the line to the linesman when Robertson had opened the whole of the left side of the box up for him - and got caught offside. 

Majority laughed at him getting put in the squad, bemused when he was picked to start. This should be the only time he's included. Nowhere near good enough. 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Dele

[Crawford Bridge]

14 minutes ago, ekok said:

OMG we are truly gubbed when scraping a last minute win at home against the team ranked 102 in the world, is seen as any sort of success. 

I will never boo our  players or staff, but we need to engage our collective brains. Criticism is not necessarily being negative,  it can be the catalyst for improvement. 

This is our National Game, we have better attendance and participation stats than most countries,  per capita. Yes the Cubs have far too big an influence with their corrosive self interest the absolute blot on our landscape.  But we must aspire to do the best we can, not settle for indifferent mediocrity. Playing two up front at home against Cyprus would have been a better start for the new regime

 

 

 

 

Yer Da.

 

[Derry Alli]

Just seen this.

 

 

[The_Kincardine]

40 minutes ago, ekok said:

Yes the Cubs have far too big an influence with their corrosive self interest the absolute blot on our landscape.

I always knew these wee pretendy Scout b*****ds were the problem.

Junior section of The BB all the way.

[craigkillie]

10 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

How many shots did the respective keepers face? As in, what's the ratio of "shots faced:goals conceded" for the two of them?

To me that's more relevant than games played for goalkeepers, especially when ones at such a dominant side.

Didn't reply to this earlier because I was out watching more Killie players playing for Scotland in one game than St Johnstone have had in the last 85 years. But anyway, the only reason I brought up clean sheets was because you incorrectly stated that Clark had more than Bain. Which he didn't.

Since you asked, in the Premiership this season, Bain faced 46 shots and conceded 6 goals (13%). Clark faced 160 shots and conceded 41 goals (26%). That is to say, Clark conceded twice as many of the shots he faced.

One might argue that it's not necessarily an exact like-for-like comparison, since Bain has a better defence in front of him too, which might mean the shots he faces might not be of the same quality. To address this, Wyscout (where I got this data from), also includes the expected number of conceded goals (xCG) for each goalkeeper (based on the probability of a goal being scored from each individual shot they faced). Based on this, Bain should have conceded 11.08 goals, but only conceded 6. Clark should have conceded 41.89 and conceded 41.

In other words, Bain's performance was above average - he conceded 4.08 fewer goals than you would expect from the average keeper (37% better than average). Clark's performance was about as slap bang average as you could expect from a keeper - he conceded 0.89 goals fewer than you would expect (2% better).

For comparison, Liam Kelly faced 156 shots and conceded 40 goals (26%), and the xCG suggested he should have conceded 45.4 goals (14% better than average).

Edited June 9, 2019 by craigkillie

[greenockraver]

far from perfect, but made a nice change to see that the players wanted to be there this time

bring on the belgians,

 

mcgregors save v israel and coming back tonight will be pivotal imo when we look back at this tournament

Edited June 9, 2019 by greenockraver

[jagfox]

Pretty honest assessment from SSC. It wasn’t pretty to watch but the team did well to get right back into things and get the winner shortly after conceding. Team spirit seemed pretty good and that’s the main thing when it comes to your first seven days with the players.

First half wasn’t great and even though just listening on the radio I managed to crash out 

Not enough time to change much as today will be a recovery day for those that played so I don’t see many changes too the team on Tuesday unless Clarke had any in mind irrespective of the game last night.

Tough task awaits on Tuesday but the tactics may suit better to countering Belgium but it’s hard to predict a positive result based on the poor elements of last nights game and that the Belgians will have ten better players than ours starting the match.

 

[DrewDon]

McKenna MOTM. 

[morrison1982]

5 hours ago, ekok said:

OMG we are truly gubbed when scraping a last minute win at home against the team ranked 102 in the world, is seen as any sort of success. 

I will never boo our  players or staff, but we need to engage our collective brains. Criticism is not necessarily being negative,  it can be the catalyst for improvement. 

This is our National Game, we have better attendance and participation stats than most countries,  per capita. Yes the Cubs have far too big an influence with their corrosive self interest the absolute blot on our landscape.  But we must aspire to do the best we can, not settle for indifferent mediocrity. Playing two up front at home against Cyprus would have been a better start for the new regime

 

 

 

 

Chicago White Sox should have more influence IMO.

[morrison1982]

8 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Means f**k all. One of the best international teams in the world only beat them 2-0, we weren't great there but the over reaction from Scotland fans really winds me up.

I totally get it and I was as seething as everyone else over McLeish, not because of the here and now but because I didn't see any point in it or future under him.

Clarkes in now, best man for the job, I do see a future now and will happily give the team the benefit of the doubt. Cyprus aren't a team we have the right to be swotting aside with ease.

 

Even if you go back to the era when the Scotland men qualified for stuff, we scraped two wins against Cyprus in 1990 qualifying. Richard Gough header in the umpteenth minute of injury time over there, having been 2-1 down.

 

[kennysmassiveego]

9 hours ago, Kuro said:

Tierney, Fredericks, potentially Palmer, even John Souttar.

Once Celtic buy O’Donnell for £1million he’ll become a much better player cos Lenny’s a better coach than Clarke  

[RandomGuy.]

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Didn't reply to this earlier because I was out watching more Killie players playing for Scotland in one game than St Johnstone have had in the last 85 years. But anyway, the only reason I brought up clean sheets was because you incorrectly stated that Clark had more than Bain. Which he didn't.

Since you asked, in the Premiership this season, Bain faced 46 shots and conceded 6 goals (13%). Clark faced 160 shots and conceded 41 goals (26%). That is to say, Clark conceded twice as many of the shots he faced.

One might argue that it's not necessarily an exact like-for-like comparison, since Bain has a better defence in front of him too, which might mean the shots he faces might not be of the same quality. To address this, Wyscout (where I got this data from), also includes the expected number of conceded goals (xCG) for each goalkeeper (based on the probability of a goal being scored from each individual shot they faced). Based on this, Bain should have conceded 11.08 goals, but only conceded 6. Clark should have conceded 41.89 and conceded 41.

In other words, Bain's performance was above average - he conceded 4.08 fewer goals than you would expect from the average keeper (37% better than average). Clark's performance was about as slap bang average as you could expect from a keeper - he conceded 0.89 goals fewer than you would expect (2% better).

For comparison, Liam Kelly faced 156 shots and conceded 40 goals (26%), and the xCG suggested he should have conceded 45.4 goals (14% better than average).

Cheers.

FWIW I never claimed Clark had more clean sheets.

[kennysmassiveego]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Cheers.

FWIW I never claimed Clark had more clean sheets.

Just been telt   

[Diamonds are Forever]

7 hours ago, Tartan Dave said:

Agree on mcginn. Agree on strongest midfield. Didn’t think mclean was that bad but hey ho! Hazard v o donnell is going to give me sleepless nights for a few days i think

 

It's interesting how under Strachan everyone was saying how the English Championship wasn't a good league and we put too much emphasis on picking players from there. Yet people want McGinn in the team because he had a good season with Villa, in the Championship. Same, to a lesser extent, with McLean.

McTominay, McGregor and Armstrong should be the 3. In easier games you could play with 1 sitting and Armstrong and McGregor linking with the striker. In tougher times you could have 2 sitting with Armstrong getting forward. McGinn is good in the chaos of the Championship. In international games where possession and game intelligence is key he is found wanting.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, kennysmassiveego said:

Just been telt   

Only if you believe Bain performing 37% better than average is sustainable...

[Binos]

1 hour ago, morrison1982 said:

Even if you go back to the era when the Scotland men qualified for stuff, we scraped two wins against Cyprus in 1990 qualifying. Richard Gough header in the umpteenth minute of injury time over there, having been 2-1 down.

 

That was when 5 mins injury time was headline news

Today it's standard

We also beat France at home that campaign to qualify

[sergie's no1 fan]

 
It's interesting how under Strachan everyone was saying how the English Championship wasn't a good league and we put too much emphasis on picking players from there. Yet people want McGinn in the team because he had a good season with Villa, in the Championship. Same, to a lesser extent, with McLean.
McTominay, McGregor and Armstrong should be the 3. In easier games you could play with 1 sitting and Armstrong and McGregor linking with the striker. In tougher times you could have 2 sitting with Armstrong getting forward. McGinn is good in the chaos of the Championship. In international games where possession and game intelligence is key he is found wanting.

Hibs and Saints fans have been wanting McGinn involved before he went to Villa, as i said in the other thread he should have been broken in earlier imo.

There is a difference between young guys playing well in our league then 'earning a bigger move' to the Championship down South than picking some English journeyman with a Scottish gran.

Hopefully McGinn improves week by week in the EPL next season. We need Armstrong playing every week too.