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Auld Heid

Linlithgow Rose - 2019-20

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4 hours ago, Mike Munro said:

Not trying to discredit, you can only put away the chances you get, but two saveable headers and howler of a clearance which would have been a goal kick if left alone. And howlers in other games memorable too !

The howler in the corner was as bad a decision as a keeper could make. When you're away out near the corner it's obviously suicidal to risk giving them the ball in our half. Bad technique is one thing, but this was just terrible judgment.

I didn't think the other two were that bad from the keeper's perspective, certainly the other goal in the first half looked more Scullion's responsibility to me. I thought he should have got his head on it. 

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Agree we don't look organised and that isn't something that can be blamed on Brown needs time. At times you struggle to see our shape.

 

 

 

You kidding me on? He didn’t get the job last Tuesday, he’s been there for ages ( relatively speaking).

 

What you think he does before a game? Picks 11 players and asks them to do what they want and stand where they like?

 

Shape, organisation and adjustments to either are ALL the responsibility of the manager. So if they are non existent, The managers go blame.

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2 hours ago, ItsUnited said:

Interesting quote Alan considering he was only 18 at the time, came in on loan and helped save camelon from relegation, Camelon wanted to sign him after his loan and tried again at the start of this season. Clearly your efforts to discredit all the players at the rose have little substance. Fortunately your opinions are just that...your opinion.

Who r u his dad. Considering how poor we were at the time I'm not sure why they'd want to sign him. I didnt rate him

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12 hours ago, surely not! said:

 

You kidding me on? He didn’t get the job last Tuesday, he’s been there for ages ( relatively speaking).

 

What you think he does before a game? Picks 11 players and asks them to do what they want and stand where they like?

 

Shape, organisation and adjustments to either are ALL the responsibility of the manager. So if they are non existent, The managers go blame.

Read my post again - I'm saying exactly the same a you.

I acknowledged BF needs time to get in his own players.  

Agree totally with the view, that our shape and getting the players to fulfil instructions is the responsibility of the manager.  This is an area of real concern for me as we are losing games  because we can't be relied upon to keep the ball out of our own net - no matter the opposition.  We aren't winning games for that reason - I can't recall the last blank sheet we kept.

 

 

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13 hours ago, surely not! said:

 

You kidding me on? He didn’t get the job last Tuesday, he’s been there for ages ( relatively speaking).

 

What you think he does before a game? Picks 11 players and asks them to do what they want and stand where they like?

 

Shape, organisation and adjustments to either are ALL the responsibility of the manager. So if they are non existent, The managers go blame.

He joined in mid-October. I would maybe agree with you if we were a full-time club, but how much time has he actually had with the players? Once they've done basic training, part-time clubs don't have much time left for tactics, especially in the winter. We're not talking about basic formation here, we're talking about more of the intricacies of attacking play, and it wouldn't surprise me if he's spent most of his time on defence.

You can never know from the outside the extent to which it's the manager not setting up the team right, or the players not executing the plan. He's come into a club with some long-standing problems and unless things deteriorate I'm not going to judge him until next season.

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He joined in mid-October. I would maybe agree with you if we were a full-time club, but how much time has he actually had with the players? Once they've done basic training, part-time clubs don't have much time left for tactics, especially in the winter. We're not talking about basic formation here, we're talking about more of the intricacies of attacking play, and it wouldn't surprise me if he's spent most of his time on defence.
You can never know from the outside the extent to which it's the manager not setting up the team right, or the players not executing the plan. He's come into a club with some long-standing problems and unless things deteriorate I'm not going to judge him until next season.


Basic training????? ‘

‘run from cone to cone for a bit, do some passing and shooting and then let’s have a wee game then if there’s time at the end I might touch on some of that tactical stuff I’ve heard that’s important - but only if there’s time mind’

You’ve highlighted he’s been there for four months practically. Almost half a season. Will next seasons training sessions be twice as long? Will they have more time after ‘basic training’ for tactics? Will ‘his own players’ arrive with a detailed tactical knowledge of what he already wants and not need any further input? Or are you thinking pre season will solve it all, because if that’s the case, you better hope whatever tactics he settles for on August don’t need tweaked again with such little time for tactics.

Usually agree with your stance on here compared to most of the Rose fans but if this is what’s fans are thinking and accepting then it’s no wonder the Rose have gone backwards quicker than Marty McFly.

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We're not talking about basic formation here, we're talking about more of the intricacies of attacking play, and it wouldn't surprise me if he's spent most of his time on defence.



For the sake of the Rose, I hope he hasn’t because every post from every game since he joined has had a pop at how poor they are in that area.

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45 minutes ago, surely not! said:

 


Basic training????? ‘

‘run from cone to cone for a bit, do some passing and shooting and then let’s have a wee game then if there’s time at the end I might touch on some of that tactical stuff I’ve heard that’s important - but only if there’s time mind’

You’ve highlighted he’s been there for four months practically. Almost half a season. Will next seasons training sessions be twice as long? Will they have more time after ‘basic training’ for tactics? Will ‘his own players’ arrive with a detailed tactical knowledge of what he already wants and not need any further input? Or are you thinking pre season will solve it all, because if that’s the case, you better hope whatever tactics he settles for on August don’t need tweaked again with such little time for tactics.

Usually agree with your stance on here compared to most of the Rose fans but if this is what’s fans are thinking and accepting then it’s no wonder the Rose have gone backwards quicker than Marty McFly.

 

It's a reality of part-time football in a cold, dark place that you get 2-4 hours a week with the players outside of matchdays, and a big chunk of that is needed for fitness and set pieces. The time available for players to develop link-up play is limited and not a lot of fun in the pissing rain. Clubs at this level doing it well are usually built around a core who have been together for a while.

Of the starting 10 outfield players on Saturday only Roddy, Ruari and Smith have been at Rose more than 7 months; Roddy has missed almost all of this season so far and Smith's a fringe player. We had a 19 year old debutant at right back who had one training session with us at best, and a left back who's had maybe 4 or 5 games. Missing were TC, Ronald, Coco, Gray, Hutchison, Thom and McGowan and we've had loads of changes to the team over the past few weeks. Fluidity and familiarity in attack take time to develop and we're now in a major transitional stage.

In any case, we're scoring enough goals to win games - three on Saturday, two at Sauchie last week - we're just not keeping them out. It's the defence that's got to improve. IMO the key to that is replacing Scullion and the McKinven, we'll see if Scullion's starting when others are fit and I don't know if we have the funds for a better keeper.

 

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It's a reality of part-time football in a cold, dark place that you get 2-4 hours a week with the players outside of matchdays, and a big chunk of that is needed for fitness and set pieces. The time available for players to develop link-up play is limited and not a lot of fun in the pissing rain. Clubs at this level doing it well are usually built around a core who have been together for a while.
Of the starting 10 outfield players on Saturday only Roddy, Ruari and Smith have been at Rose more than 7 months; Roddy has missed almost all of this season so far and Smith's a fringe player. We had a 19 year old debutant at right back who had one training session with us at best, and a left back who's had maybe 4 or 5 games. Missing were TC, Ronald, Coco, Gray, Hutchison, Thom and McGowan and we've had loads of changes to the team over the past few weeks. Fluidity and familiarity in attack take time to develop and we're now in a major transitional stage.
In any case, we're scoring enough goals to win games - three on Saturday, two at Sauchie last week - we're just not keeping them out. It's the defence that's got to improve. IMO the key to that is replacing Scullion and the McKinven, we'll see if Scullion's starting when others are fit and I don't know if we have the funds for a better keeper.
 


And that makes it even more important to spend the training time working on these things. It’s 2020, fitness shouldn’t be in isolation any more and should form part of a session that can develop tactics. Set pieces? If a manager of a team in Lithgaes situation is spending major parts of training working on set pieces RATHER than tactical set up then you deserve to get dragged into a relegation battle.

He’s coaching adults, on what is likely ( I don’t know where they train) a minimum half pitch. If any manager with that facility isn’t working on tactics - especially with makeshift defences/midfield as you’ve alluded- then he’s doing the club and the players a massive disservice.

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I will add that I don’t know BF and have no idea of his training sessions and think he comes over as a decent guy, it’s merely the fact that there seems to be no realisation amongst the majority of Rose posters, about the improvements he should have started making by now that annoys me.

 

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1 hour ago, surely not! said:

I will add that I don’t know BF and have no idea of his training sessions and think he comes over as a decent guy, it’s merely the fact that there seems to be no realisation amongst the majority of Rose posters, about the improvements he should have started making by now that annoys me.

 

I'm quite clear - that our problem remains our inability to keep the ball out of our net.  We are lazy out of possession and our inability to get players behind the ball when we don't have possession haunts us regularly.   Time and time again we are exposed at the back as opponents run through us without being picked up.

BF has  made efforts in that his signings have been defensive players.   Unfortunately they have not all been available at the same time

 

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I'm quite clear - that our problem remains our inability to keep the ball out of our net.  We are lazy out of possession and our inability to get players behind the ball when we don't have possession haunts us regularly.   Time and time again we are exposed at the back as opponents run through us without being picked up.
BF has  made efforts in that his signings have been defensive players.   Unfortunately they have not all been available at the same time
 


You’re at the games and I’m not but I’m genuinely interested. I understand there have been injuries, but I’m gonna assume those players were injured and unavailable by midweek previous rather than pulling up in warm up and therefore could be worked on on training.

As a regular watcher of the team:

Would you say that these issues with runners/over exposure etc could be solved by tactical tweaks?

Or would a different manager (someone available at this level not Klopp/Pep) have identified these and solved them?

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4 hours ago, surely not! said:

I will add that I don’t know BF and have no idea of his training sessions and think he comes over as a decent guy, it’s merely the fact that there seems to be no realisation amongst the majority of Rose posters, about the improvements he should have started making by now that annoys me.

 

Honestly, the problems run deep enough that my expectations are pretty low. This is the last death throws of a team that were good enough to reach and win Junior Cup finals. It's major surgery time. The reasons we've been shipping goals don't come down to one thing, unfortunately - they're losing the ball in midfield, not closing down channels, not communicating, not defending set pieces well, all sorts of stuff. IMO Colin Leiper was holding the defence together and when he left we fell apart at the back. Barbour did a good job shoring things up, but of course he left with Bradley. That was a big loss for the incoming manager, Barbour was the leader on the field. 

I really don't want to accuse anyone of being lazy, especially when I'm sure every player in senior and junior football grafts harder than me, but in midfield we never look as busy as our opponents. Lots of possible reasons, but whatever it is I don't think it's easily fixed. You could see it on Saturday, it was only after it went to 3-3 that they started putting in the shift required. You can't just replace everyone, you've got to work with what you've got.

Generally I'm loathe to jump on managers and I want to see them given time. It's only when i see things that look wrong that I'll make judgments (*cough* McGlynn) and I don't think we're seeing that yet - just not a whole lot going as well as we'd want. The season is a write-off anyway, so I'm prepared to wait and see how next season starts. 

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1 hour ago, GordonS said:

Honestly, the problems run deep enough that my expectations are pretty low. This is the last death throws of a team that were good enough to reach and win Junior Cup finals. It's major surgery time. The reasons we've been shipping goals don't come down to one thing, unfortunately - they're losing the ball in midfield, not closing down channels, not communicating, not defending set pieces well, all sorts of stuff. IMO Colin Leiper was holding the defence together and when he left we fell apart at the back. Barbour did a good job shoring things up, but of course he left with Bradley. That was a big loss for the incoming manager, Barbour was the leader on the field. 

I really don't want to accuse anyone of being lazy, especially when I'm sure every player in senior and junior football grafts harder than me, but in midfield we never look as busy as our opponents. Lots of possible reasons, but whatever it is I don't think it's easily fixed. You could see it on Saturday, it was only after it went to 3-3 that they started putting in the shift required. You can't just replace everyone, you've got to work with what you've got.

Generally I'm loathe to jump on managers and I want to see them given time. It's only when i see things that look wrong that I'll make judgments (*cough* McGlynn) and I don't think we're seeing that yet - just not a whole lot going as well as we'd want. The season is a write-off anyway, so I'm prepared to wait and see how next season starts. 

Think someone else said, either on this ghread or the Musselburgh one that in effect the flow of play ebbed between the twp teams. In the early exchanges, Musselburgh were playing the best football but after 10 mins we found ourselves 2-0 down. Dont care how ee are playing, but if my team didny win after being 2-0 up, i am disappointed! We did well to get back into the match and then back came Linlithgow. 

Some Rose fans said Roddy was your player of match. Ifrom Columb inexpensive was on from the start, he'd have been up there! Played well when he came on and had an urgency about him that others didn't. 

For me, Nimmo was a better central defender than Scullion. Yet all through the match Scullion was telling Nimmo what to do and where to stand. If I was the manager or captain of Linlithgow, I'd be telling Scullion just to concentrate on his own game and only when he mastered that should he be allowed to tell others what to do.

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Think someone else said, either on this ghread or the Musselburgh one that in effect the flow of play ebbed between the twp teams. In the early exchanges, Musselburgh were playing the best football but after 10 mins we found ourselves 2-0 down. Dont care how ee are playing, but if my team didny win after being 2-0 up, i am disappointed! We did well to get back into the match and then back came Linlithgow. 
Some Rose fans said Roddy was your player of match. Ifrom Columb inexpensive was on from the start, he'd have been up there! Played well when he came on and had an urgency about him that others didn't. 
For me, Nimmo was a better central defender than Scullion. Yet all through the match Scullion was telling Nimmo what to do and where to stand. If I was the manager or captain of Linlithgow, I'd be telling Scullion just to concentrate on his own game and only when he mastered that should he be allowed to tell others what to do.
Scullion has been a player in his day - Nimmo looks someone we can build on for years to come.

If Scullion concentrated on defending his own box and nothing else his experience would see him through games. Instead he gets dragged into areas where he doesn't have the legs to recover from. If one of our CM's would just sit and patrol our box to half way - filling the gaps that would help also.

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On 02/02/2020 at 11:23, Deanburn Dave said:

Sam Columbine at the BU's didn't impress on the pitch when he got the chance. Looked a bit lost at times so maybe he just needed time to settle in.

There was more urgency and closing down when sam came on,he can still shine at this club if he is givin the opportunity.  But like others have said the game as a whole ,we can't hold onto a lead  we get stuck between punt up the park or work it from the back.  Can't comment on mid field .good players but something ain't right and we get over run . The back goes into clear it at any cost.  I would also mention we used to ping the ball about the park a lot faster than we do now, and yes I realise the pitch was breaking up. So we have a difficult game on saturday but to come back up the road with 3 points will give everyone a spring in their step .anything else will hurt us ,we dont need a dog fight at the wrong end of the table. Just my observation  dont go nuts 

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According to the Gazette we have - Coyne, Gray, Hutchison injured and Allison unavailable tomorrow.

That should present the first opportunity for McGowan and Nimmo to be paired for the 1st time and that encourages me.



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According to the Gazette we have - Coyne, Gray, Hutchison injured and Allison unavailable tomorrow.

That should present the first opportunity for McGowan and Nimmo to be paired for the 1st time and that encourages me.






Not sure how you came to the conclusion of that paring having the opportunity to start. Not much to choose from across the back. Is McGowan fit enough to start yet? Thom has been carrying an injury for weeks too.

The 2 fittest centre half’s are probably Nimmo and Scullion still. No left back available and Thom/smith covering right back

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