Queen's Park 2019/20

[The man with no name]

22 minutes ago, The Spider said:

I understand what you are getting at and share your frustration, but to say we are getting "nothing" back is rather dismissive of the contribution Regan has made, and will continue to make, to our first team for as long as he is with us.

Clubs are already circling and he could walk out the door pretty soon for nothing if we don't protect our investment!

[The Spider]

14 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Spfl clubs don't pay for Public Liability, employee liability and accident cover

I should also have mentioned Medical Insurance which presumably is an additional cost the club would have to bear?

[The man with no name]

2 minutes ago, The Spider said:

I should also have mentioned Medical Insurance which presumably is an additional cost the club would have to bear?

No. We don't have to pay it.

[Dooflick]

26 minutes ago, The man with no name said:

No. We don't have to pay it.

That is a very definite statement from somebody who claims he is not on the Committee.

[Boris the Spider]

Spider I have an exclusive preview of the business model.

If we don't go pro we're f****d.

That concise enough for you?

[The man with no name]

16 minutes ago, Dooflick said:

That is a very definite statement from somebody who claims he is not on the Committee.

With the injuries to our players last season, I asked about it then that's how I know!

[The Spider]

1 hour ago, The Spider said:

I should also have mentioned Medical Insurance which presumably is an additional cost the club would have to bear?

 

1 hour ago, The man with no name said:

No. We don't have to pay it.

Could you clarify for me please. We currently arrange medical cover for our players and someone else funds it, or we don't take it out because we don't have to? If the latter then I'm afraid you've missed the point of my question which is that in a Professional environment isn't that the kind of cover we should have to protect both our own and our players' interests?

Davie Anderson told me personally that he was unable to see a specialist to help him get over the niggling injury that shortened his career with us and if the club had been able to arrange that for him then in all likelihood he could have played longer for us, so I think it's an important benefit (and cost) that we would need to seriously consider taking on if we don't currently.

[The Spider]

39 minutes ago, Boris the Spider said:

Spider I have an exclusive preview of the business model.

If we don't go pro we're f****d.

That concise enough for you?

Thanks Boris - your trademark flippancy is greatly appreciated as always, but hopefully the President will be a little bit more expansive in his forthcoming communications. Unless a long term sustainable professional model can be delivered then it will become a matter of which f***ing to choose between. One which sees the club gradually erode our savings by spending more on wages each season than it takes in from other sources, or one which eventually sees follow 'Shire into a lower league. Last time I checked 'Shire were still a functioning football club, which is better than one which has gone out of business.

Neither of those scenarios are particularly appealling, so hopefully the club can "do the right thing" and produce an illustrative business model before the vote so that an informed choice can be made rather than the current blanket negativity that governs any alternative scenario.

[an86]

2 hours ago, The Spider said:

I understand what you are getting at and share your frustration, but to say we are getting "nothing" back is rather dismissive of the contribution Regan has made, and will continue to make, to our first team for as long as he is with us.

He's not started a league game for us yet. The maximum number of games he'll start for us is twelve before he leaves. What's the point in spending money on years worth of coaching etc. for the return of a maximum of twelve starts and then watch a real talent leave for nothing? If we're going to remain amateur, we're genuinely just as well knocking the youth setup on the head. It would be a crying shame for youngsters in the community, but what would we actually be getting from the investment in it? 

[The man with no name]

1 hour ago, The Spider said:

 

Could you clarify for me please. We currently arrange medical cover for our players and someone else funds it, or we don't take it out because we don't have to? If the latter then I'm afraid you've missed the point of my question which is that in a Professional environment isn't that the kind of cover we should have to protect both our own and our players' interests?

Davie Anderson told me personally that he was unable to see a specialist to help him get over the niggling injury that shortened his career with us and if the club had been able to arrange that for him then in all likelihood he could have played longer for us, so I think it's an important benefit (and cost) that we would need to seriously consider taking on if we don't currently.

My belief is that we don't provide it but pay for things if and when they occur.

My understanding is that very few Clubs if any in our league provide this. 

[The man with no name]

1 hour ago, The Spider said:

Last time I checked 'Shire were still a functioning football club, which is better than one which has gone out of business.

Who have a new American owner who has pumped money in to boost their playing staff.

For someone keeping an open mind, you seem to be finding more and more obscure reasons to stay amateur!

If you had attended the meeting the other night you would have picked up that the Club want to be able to offer promising Youth players professional contracts. As I've previously stated the cost to the Club is not prohibitive and the benefits give the club a better chance of retaining our SPFL status. Either by proper compensation that can be re-invested in the playing squad without over-stretching ourselves or by retaining our best young players. I honestly can't believe anyone who has the best interests of the club at heart could be against it. It seriously amazes me!

[Hampden Diehard]

Yes arranged and paid for by SPFL for all 42 clubs via a block agreement.

Another cost that would be added if we tumbled into the Lowland League??

[Cowden Cowboy]

Another cost that would be added if we tumbled into the Lowland League??

Yes plus LL clubs also have to pay for their own match officials

[Hampden Diehard]

I understand what you are getting at and share your frustration, but to say we are getting "nothing" back is rather dismissive of the contribution Regan has made, and will continue to make, to our first team for as long as he is with us.

We got less than 10 first team matches in total out of the four players who left in the summer. For about 25 to 30 years of youth training; that's nothing. We would have received over £90k, which is "something", in terms of compensation.  

Regan has been with us for something like 7 years. The guy, like the others, owes us nothing but his contribution to QP will probably be less than 10 games. That's nothing in terms of contribution to the first team too and it's not dismissive at all to say that; it's what it is. What we should be getting is fair compensation for what we have invested in the guy like every other club. Being amateur precludes us from receiving this.

 

 

 

[Cowden Cowboy]

6 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

We got less than 10 first team matches in total out of the four players who left in the summer. For about 25 to 30 years of youth training; that's nothing. We would have received over £90k, which is "something", in terms of compensation.

 

Regan has been with us for something like 7 years. The guy owes us nothing but his contribution to QP will probably be less than 10 games. That's nothing too and it's not dismissive at all to say that; it's what it is. What we should be getting is fair compensation for what we have invested in the guy.

 

It's unlikely you would have received compensation instead the players would still be with you as long as you had matched their existing deal (and made sure you still complied with minimum wage requirements)

[The Spider]

2 hours ago, The man with no name said:

My belief is that we don't provide it but pay for things if and when they occur.

My understanding is that very few Clubs if any in our league provide this. 

Ok - thanks for that info

[The Spider]

1 hour ago, The man with no name said:

Who have a new American owner who has pumped money in to boost their playing staff.

For someone keeping an open mind, you seem to be finding more and more obscure reasons to stay amateur!

If you had attended the meeting the other night you would have picked up that the Club want to be able to offer promising Youth players professional contracts. As I've previously stated the cost to the Club is not prohibitive and the benefits give the club a better chance of retaining our SPFL status. Either by proper compensation that can be re-invested in the playing squad without over-stretching ourselves or by retaining our best young players. I honestly can't believe anyone who has the best interests of the club at heart could be against it. It seriously amazes me!

Didn't know about Shire's new owner - just picked them at random, but interesting about their potential and possibly now a future threat to us?

The whole point about keeping an open mind is that you examine both sides of the argument, something you certainly can't be accused of I concede.

Yes, you have previously stated the cost to the Club is not prohibitive, and as i completely agree about the potential benefits then it should be a relatively simple exercise for the Treasurer to produce a cost and benefits analysis so every member can share the information already intimated to you.

As for your final statement, life experience has taught me that things I've believed-in in principle can sometimes unravel when put under deeper scrutiny. Perhaps I'm less trusting than you, but fortunately I chose not to believe you when you told everyone there wouldn't be an EGM as there was no need for one, so forgive me for taking time to make my own mind up rather than being concerned by your amazement.

[The Spider]

1 hour ago, Hampden Diehard said:

7 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Yes arranged and paid for by SPFL for all 42 clubs via a block agreement.

Another cost that would be added if we tumbled into the Lowland League??

that's a very good question and makes me wonder if there are others in the same scenario?

[The Spider]

1 hour ago, Hampden Diehard said:

We got less than 10 first team matches in total out of the four players who left in the summer. For about 25 to 30 years of youth training; that's nothing. We would have received over £90k, which is "something", in terms of compensation.  

Regan has been with us for something like 7 years. The guy, like the others, owes us nothing but his contribution to QP will probably be less than 10 games. That's nothing in terms of contribution to the first team too and it's not dismissive at all to say that; it's what it is. What we should be getting is fair compensation for what we have invested in the guy like every other club. Being amateur precludes us from receiving this.

 

Let's not argue over semantics as i agree with the above. I was just pointing out that it's a little bit dismissive to both the boy and all the coaches concerned to say that getting him into our first team is "nothing". In comparative terms to potential compensation yes it's tiny, but I just felt that a little acknowledgment of his progress was in order, and AN's post didn't address that side of things. The financial side is indeed nothing, but taking a 10 year old all the way to the first team however few appearances he makes, to me is definitely "something" rather than "nothing".

The £90k you mention is an impressive figure, which is why it stuns me that those who wish the change to go through aren't falling over themselves to put that sort of thing in writing to every member before the EGM. Yes I know you'll recycle the old line that they all had the opportunity to attend the meetings but answer me this.........how many members does the club have and how many attended the briefings?

I'm as fed up repeating this as you are no doubt reading this, so this will be the last time I'll say it and then we'll let the cards fall where they may...........this club needs the right outcome, and if it gets the wrong one because proxy voters don't receive sufficient information and vote with their hearts instead of their heads, then that will be nobody's fault but the club's, and it will get the future it deserves.

[an86]

1 hour ago, The Spider said:

I'm as fed up repeating this as you are no doubt reading this, so this will be the last time I'll say it and then we'll let the cards fall where they may...........this club needs the right outcome, and if it gets the wrong one because proxy voters don't receive sufficient information and vote with their hearts instead of their heads, then that will be nobody's fault but the club's, and it will get the future it deserves.

The people responsible are the people with the votes. Opportunities to attend meetings have been plentiful and committee members are visible and approachable at every home game, one in particular still selling 50-50 tickets most weeks at home games.

Gerry Crawley could not have been clearer, either at meetings or in the press about what remaining amateur will mean. There's nothing he or anyone else can do if grown adults expect to be spoon fed during the most important period in our history.