an86 Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, The Spider said: Jeez Annie. Sometimes you make the simplest things unbelievably complex so I'll keep it ultra-simple for you. If it comes to a members' vote there will be two choices........turn professional or remain amateur. Until i see the detailed plan of how turning professional provides a brighter future for the club than remaining amateur, I'm in favour of the status quo. We'll just gloss over the Clyde/Sevco fan patter... You've conceded that both options will entail major upheaval, yet you only seek a detailed plan for one of those options. That just simply defies logic. You're completely against diving blind into one circumstance, but in favour of doing the complete opposite for the option you favour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick1867 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 16 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said: P.S on the Hampden-being-a-boost thing. I've often felt other teams get a boost from visiting the National Stadium. Last week's Stenny game being an example. Yes, we outplayed them but their defence fought like lions. In the year we got promoted under Gus, we won 7 of our home games, lost 6 and drew 5. Hardly a fortress. I've never thought it was a fortress (although Billy Stark had a good go at turning it into one) but I know for a fact the players love playing there. Every one of the new players I spoke to at the meet the players thing mentioned it. I am also aware of the boost it can give to the opposition. I agree with you about Lesser, that's why I am glad we are going there and I hope we turn pro. A real opportunity for us, the sooner we are out of Hampden the better 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 16 hours ago, The Spider said: until such time as I see business model A v business model B which clearly demonstrates the need for such a change, then i will remain firmly in favour of the status quo 6 minutes ago, an86 said: yet you only seek a detailed plan for one of those options. That just simply defies logic. Annie, please re-read the above extract from my earlier post and compare it with your reasoned argument and see if you can spot the fatal flaw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick1867 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, The Spider said: Jeez Annie. Sometimes you make the simplest things unbelievably complex so I'll keep it ultra-simple for you. Pot and kettle! Also, is there any reason why you constantly refer to him by a female name? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Spider said: Annie, please re-read the above extract from my earlier post and compare it with your reasoned argument and see if you can spot the fatal flaw. Yes, I've read it again and it's still nonsensical. You've stated that both options entail major upheaval and you're weighting all of the responsibility on one side of the argument. Both of these options are for change, there is no status quo option. It's complete fantasy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Your Own Socks Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Anyone feel even a little guilty about feeding an ego on here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The man with no name Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, The Spider said: At the moment there appear to be three camps. Those who wish us to remain amateur in any circumstance, those who wish us to turn professional, and those like me who wish to remain amateur until it is sufficiently demonstrated by comparative business models that turning professional is the only way to survive. If as you believe it is so blatantly obvious that turning professional is the only option, why would you believe that once presented with the appropriate business models the propsed change wouldn't receive the necessary majority of members' votes? Why are you so scared of following due process if you are so confident that it's a one-sided argument? And why aren't you familiar with the phrase en masse? If it's put to a vote and 74.9% vote for a change then it fails. Chaos ensues and a minority are allowed to derail the majority of the Club. That would be unthinkable and a bigger disgrace and more damaging to the Club than 76% voting for change and the minority being upset! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick1867 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said: Anyone feel even a little guilty about feeding an ego on here? A wee bit. He is obviously passionate about his position but unfortunately a lot of valid points he makes get lost in word salad that makes your eyes bleed What I can't understand is why so many supporters haven't attended any of the meetings to make their points in person. This can be great place for debate and I'm all for that but ultimately it's just an anonymous and informal internet football forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiders4ever Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 46 minutes ago, Mick1867 said: A wee bit. He is obviously passionate about his position but unfortunately a lot of valid points he makes get lost in word salad that makes your eyes bleed What I can't understand is why so many supporters haven't attended any of the meetings to make their points in person. This can be great place for debate and I'm all for that but ultimately it's just an anonymous and informal internet football forum. Mick. In order to ask the right questions you need the projections etc for all the scenarios in writing and in advance of the meeting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williebraveheart Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 46 minutes ago, spiders4ever said: Mick. In order to ask the right questions you need the projections etc for all the scenarios in writing and in advance of the meeting. Exactly. It is time for the committee to grasp the nettle and show leadership. That is what they are there for. Presentation is what is required, not meaningless discussion. Meaningful discussion, if required, comes after presentation. It is blindingly obvious that major change must happen so please, committee, gives us your facts and figures together with proposals. Let's get it done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Mick1867 said: Also, is there any reason why you constantly refer to him by a female name? Because it's the nickname that was given to him/her (and not by me I might add) on this site many years ago. Is that okay or do I need to run this sort of thing by you first? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, The man with no name said: If it's put to a vote and 74.9% vote for a change then it fails. Chaos ensues and a minority are allowed to derail the majority of the Club. That would be unthinkable and a bigger disgrace and more damaging to the Club than 76% voting for change and the minority being upset! So why (along the same lines as someone else proposed a few pages back) don't you get enough members to form an EGM and propose reducing the % to 50%? Personally I'd have no problem with that and would support your motion, but until then rules need to be followed. That's the democratic (whether you deem it fair or otherwise) process, and I would suggest that failure to abide by the rules of the club would present a far greater risk of chaos ensuing than from people who fail to win a vote under the existing rules. A few years ago there were some disgraceful goings on at an AGM where the Committee effectively belittled new people who wanted to stand for contestable positions, but rightly or wrongly they won the day. I and many others were very upset by what transpired that evening, but we accepted the result however unfairly it appeared to us that it may have been achieved. No chaos ensued, nor should it have. Them's the rules so abide by them or try to change them, but please don't try to bypass them completely just because you're feart you won't get the outcome you're hoping for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick1867 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, The Spider said: Because it's the nickname that was given to him/her (and not by me I might add) on this site many years ago. Is that okay or do I need to run this sort of thing by you first? Why would you need to run anything by me? What a strange thing to say. It's good to know though that it's based on abysmal patter. Thought you might be better than that tbh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick1867 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, williebraveheart said: Exactly. It is time for the committee to grasp the nettle and show leadership. That is what they are there for. Presentation is what is required, not meaningless discussion. Meaningful discussion, if required, comes after presentation. It is blindingly obvious that major change must happen so please, committee, gives us your facts and figures together with proposals. Let's get it done. It was far from a meaningless discussion imo, it gave the committee an idea of some of the feeling out there among our support, not just the members . I also look forward to more info, which I am certain will follow, but there was a small presentation done at the last meeting detailing the pros and cons. It was a good starting point 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Mick1867 said: Why would you need to run anything by me? Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me Michael. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The man with no name Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 4 hours ago, spiders4ever said: Mick. In order to ask the right questions you need the projections etc for all the scenarios in writing and in advance of the meeting. No we don't! Good governance is the Committee present the issue, the choices and their solution. They can't possibly give us every detail, nor do we need it to the nth degree. We need to know they have done that and are representing us properly. If not then we vote them off and choose others to represent us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiders4ever Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, The man with no name said: No we don't! Good governance is the Committee present the issue, the choices and their solution. They can't possibly give us every detail, nor do we need it to the nth degree. We need to know they have done that and are representing us properly. If not then we vote them off and choose others to represent us. We just need to disagree. I'm saying what I need. What you need can be completely different. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QPFCsince1867 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 For me the key change has been the introduction of the trapdoor. Had that change not happened, it is possible that we could have continued at Lesser on an Amateur basis. Not now IMO, and the following scenario explains my position. Every summer all the teams in our league are now playing Russian Roulette. After the league cup and a handful of league games, any of us can find ourselves facing the bullet. Look at how Brechin just shat the bed after just 3 league games. The problem for Queens is that (I think anyway) we are uniquely handicapped at the moment in NOT being able to rescue the situation in the January window. Yes we can bring in a new coach or the odd loan player, but we can’t do what Albion just did last season. We’d be up shit creek. Can you imagine?Too late now to resolve all the should we shouldn’t we stuff. For that reason alone, and there are others, we have to change and give ourselves a chance. Relegation to the LL as Amateur would finish us as a senior team. We’d not be back. What then, turn Pro in the LL? 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Your Own Socks Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick1867 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, QPFCsince1867 said: For me the key change has been the introduction of the trapdoor. Had that change not happened, it is possible that we could have continued at Lesser on an Amateur basis. Not now IMO, and the following scenario explains my position. Every summer all the teams in our league are now playing Russian Roulette. After the league cup and a handful of league games, any of us can find ourselves facing the bullet. Look at how Brechin just shat the bed after just 3 league games. The problem for Queens is that (I think anyway) we are uniquely handicapped at the moment in NOT being able to rescue the situation in the January window. Yes we can bring in a new coach or the odd loan player, but we can’t do what Albion just did last season. We’d be up shit creek. Can you imagine?Too late now to resolve all the should we shouldn’t we stuff. For that reason alone, and there are others, we have to change and give ourselves a chance. Relegation to the LL as Amateur would finish us as a senior team. We’d not be back. What then, turn Pro in the LL? Good post. Some people have pointed out that being pro didn't save the Shire or Berwick, however being pro gives them a fighting chance of coming back up in the future, not to mention avoiding relegation from the LL. The LL is so much stronger now from back when the worst Queen's Park team I've ever seen managed to knock Preston Athletic out the Scottish Cup. Preston were 3rd in the LL at the time. They are now in the East of Scotland league after relegation two years ago Edited August 21, 2019 by Mick1867 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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