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an86

Queen's Park 2019/20

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A couple of comments about other semi-professional teams. Two of them have gone down to the Lowland League. Turning professional doesn't guarantee staying up. I don't think that any club outside of the Premier has anything like our youth set up. Lower league sides survive by having no youth system. Would going professional mean the end of our youth set up? The figures are all important.

Two more ambitious semi-pro teams have came up. One is almost ready for L1 already. The other by all accounts not far behind. Others are already in the traps, preying on the likes of us.

Our youth system is very well established and admired. Dropping down to the Lowland would almost certainly crush it. As mentioned before, pro contracts offered at the right time will either secure some cash or retain our better players thus increasing our chances of getting to L1, and staying there.

At least until we are ready to push up to the Championship. That's step 11.

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11 hours ago, an86 said:

What do other clubs at this level have that we either don't have or cannot potentially have?

A one town one club identity perhaps?

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10 hours ago, Ben Reilly said:

there is no point in spending time, effort and money on the figures and details if the majority of fans are against the change to semi pro.

i thought it was going to be the club's members who held sway over this, unless you are perhaps suggesting there are a significant number of fans who would stop supporting us if we remained amateur and the committee need to take account of that? Yes the club are right to involve fans at this stage, but wouldn't they be better guaging a likely outcome based on what stakeholders would vote for?

Edited by The Spider

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10 hours ago, spiders4ever said:

A couple of comments about other semi-professional teams. Two of them have gone down to the Lowland League. Turning professional doesn't guarantee staying up. I don't think that any club outside of the Premier has anything like our youth set up. Lower league sides survive by having no youth system. Would going professional mean the end of our youth set up? The figures are all important.

Quite the opposite. Going professional is the only way to keep our Youth system. If we stay amateur and get no reward from an expensive part of our Club it will go. Reward means monetary or players progressing to the first team and playing more than a handful of games.

Those wishing to stay amateur must realise that the Club won't stay the same! The Youth system will go. The only way to save it is going professional. 

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Quite the opposite. Going professional is the only way to keep our Youth system. If we stay amateur and get no reward from an expensive part of our Club it will go. Reward means monetary or players progressing to the first team and playing more than a handful of games.
Those wishing to stay amateur must realise that the Club won't stay the same! The Youth system will go. The only way to save it is going professional. 

How much does the youth system benefit from the attraction of Hampden - which will disappear from the equation going forward?

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the form had a box to tick whether member not, so they will have info, if members views different to supporters.

 

I am pretty sure that the committee has an outline business plan for staying amateur, there  were several references to 'managed decline', if we stay amateur.

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52 minutes ago, The Spider said:

A one town one club identity perhaps?

We arguably already have a larger support than most one club towns in the league. A greater catchment area to attract more as well. Worth noting that the two biggest financial hitters in the league come from cities. 

Edited by an86

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1 hour ago, The Spider said:

i thought it was going to be the club's members who held sway over this, unless you are perhaps suggesting there are a significant number of fans who would stop supporting us if we remained amateur and the committee need to take account of that? Yes the club are right to involve fans at this stage, but wouldn't they be better guaging a likely outcome based on what stakeholders would vote for?

At no time was giving members a vote mentioned.

The Committee seem to be consulting with all stakeholders and I assume they will make the decision in the best interests of the Club. If a vote is not necessary and the majority are in favour then there is no need to have a vote.

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i thought it was going to be the club's members who held sway over this, unless you are perhaps suggesting there are a significant number of fans who would stop supporting us if we remained amateur and the committee need to take account of that? Yes the club are right to involve fans at this stage, but wouldn't they be better guaging a likely outcome based on what stakeholders would vote for?
I was really just using 'fans' as a catch all term for members/season ticket holders/supporters/casual fans etc. in that instance. I wasnt really suggesting that significant numbers would stop supporting if we remain amateur, but now that I think about it, a significant number of 'fans' may stop coming if we end up in relative obscurity in the lowland league, which I believe we have the best chance of avoiding by going pro.
As others have said, the form on the night asked people which category they fell into, so they should be able to tell if members have a generally different opinion to say season ticket holders, I have no idea whether that is likely to be the case.
I also dont know whether the change would need a members vote or not.
However, while I dont know how many members we actually have compared to season ticket holders etc, I think it is important that all are included in the discussions. Whether members or not, all at our games are contributing financially by paying for admission and have a vested interest. Perhaps it may even encourage more to become members, especially if it does come down to a vote.

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A further thought that has occurred to me re the move to lesser is that a number of away fans dont like Hampden for its atmosphere and because they have a poor view from the corner. Perhaps more away fans may be encouraged to come to Lesser if their complaints are no longer an issue, which would mean more gate money for us. Whether that is realistic I have no idea, but we'll certainly have far fewer away (and probably home) supporters through the gates if we dont continue to compete in the spfl. In contrast, if we give ourselves the best chance of competing in league one (or higher?) both home any away support attendance at Lesser will probably increase, bringing in more money. As the president said, if we're going to redevelop lesser, we should have the goal of filling it to capacity regularly.

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A further thought that has occurred to me re the move to lesser is that a number of away fans dont like Hampden for its atmosphere and because they have a poor view from the corner. Perhaps more away fans may be encouraged to come to Lesser if their complaints are no longer an issue, which would mean more gate money for us.


Have to put my hands up and say that I fall into this category. I’d rather miss a visit to Queens Park than watch a Stirling game there. As a result, you as a club miss out and an Adult and 2 children coming through the gate.

With a game at Lesser not having this problem, and only being 20-30 minutes away, pretty much certain that I would come through for that.

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2 minutes ago, BB_Bino said:

 


Have to put my hands up and say that I fall into this category. I’d rather miss a visit to Queens Park than watch a Stirling game there. As a result, you as a club miss out and an Adult and 2 children coming through the gate.

With a game at Lesser not having this problem, and only being 20-30 minutes away, pretty much certain that I would come through for that.

 

Just out of curiousity, what's the Stirling Albion view of the potential drop to the Lowland League?

Are you doing anything to mitigate the risk?

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47 minutes ago, Ben Reilly said:


I also dont know whether the change would need a members vote or not.

Neither do I Ben, and I would have thought that's rather an important factor in all of this. If the constitution requires to be changed then the Club would look rather foolish to continue down this route without a majority backing of its members, and whilst the straw poll may give them an indication, history suggests that there is usually a louder voice for change than for preservation of the status quo. I fully respect democracy, and if a majority of members feel this is the right route to go down then I will reluctantly accept that outcome, but if the club choose to bypass that protocol then they risk further dividing a support that they need to take en masse with them if their initiative is to be successful. And before anyone suggests why don't I ask the Club about that aspect, i wrote to them asking that very question and i'm sure anyone who's written to them before will be shocked and stunned to learn that I never received a response.

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I'm a club member, but I don't necessarily believe that the membership is reflective of the wider support. It's absolutely right that non-members voices are given just as much of a hearing. To be fair, I think that's what's happening.

Folk who've been travelling up to Elgin, Peterhead etc. for years should have as much, if not more, of a say in this than people who are almost sleeper members. It's a particular system that I feel needs to be modernised and made more reflective of the wider support. That's probably a debate for another day, though. 

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9 minutes ago, an86 said:

I'm a club member, but I don't necessarily believe that the membership is reflective of the wider support. It's absolutely right that non-members voices are given just as much of a hearing. To be fair, I think that's what's happening.

Folk who've been travelling up to Elgin, Peterhead etc. for years should have as much, if not more, of a say in this than people who are almost sleeper members. It's a particular system that I feel needs to be modernised and made more reflective of the wider support. That's probably a debate for another day, though. 

Completely agree that every fan's voice should be heard, but if you have a constitution that requires change then I can't believe for a minute that you would genuinely be suggesting that anyone other than the members should be voting on it. Next you'll be telling me that the next President shouldn't necessarily be a member, and that major decisions affecting the club's future should be put to a vote on the supporters' bus.

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2 minutes ago, The Spider said:

Completely agree that every fan's voice should be heard, but if you have a constitution that requires change then I can't believe for a minute that you would genuinely be suggesting that anyone other than the members should be voting on it. Next you'll be telling me that the next President shouldn't necessarily be a member, and that major decisions affecting the club's future should be put to a vote on the supporters' bus.

I don't think it necessarily requires a vote if we have a clear majority in favour of a direction of travel from the other night. 

No, I'm not suggesting that. One of the reasons I became a member is because I saw this debate coming and wanted a say if it came to it. I'm merely stating that I don't believe in the two tier system of members/fans and I think we need to find a way of bridging it or making the membership process less stuffy and old fashioned. 

I'm basically one of those hypocrites who preaches about socialism and then accepts a peerage. I don't believe in it, but I'll do it anyway. 

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8 minutes ago, an86 said:

I don't think it necessarily requires a vote if we have a clear majority in favour of a direction of travel from the other night. 

No, I'm not suggesting that. One of the reasons I became a member is because I saw this debate coming and wanted a say if it came to it. I'm merely stating that I don't believe in the two tier system of members/fans and I think we need to find a way of bridging it or making the membership process less stuffy and old fashioned. 

I'm basically one of those hypocrites who preaches about socialism and then accepts a peerage. I don't believe in it, but I'll do it anyway. 

Lord An The Lesser

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