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46 minutes ago, Boris the Spider said:

 a great QP player

oh Boris, you were doing pretty well up to that point but "great"..........seriously?  "Good" I would certainly concede, but Lord help us if that's all it takes to be a great player for us nowadays :thumbsdown

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11 hours ago, Mick1867 said:

To be fair, he also did pretty well at Stranraer   

Yip, I'll give you that one.

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59 minutes ago, Boris the Spider said:

Well I’m sure Wullie would do all that just to keep you happy Spider.emoji42.png

For the rest of us - if he came back - we would just be delighted to see a great QP player back where he belongs. Not to mention a much needed addition to the squad.

I really hope it does happen but I’m sure I know as much as you Spider.

We've all seen the days when a poor keeper has bee tragic to watch and the effect that's had on results.  I'd have him back in a heartbeat.  I'm sure I posted on here that I met his father in law who said that Wullie's wife had nagged him into making some money, so he left for a job drivingin Edinburgh.  Given he was dropped at the time, I can't be too critical of the guy.

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oh Boris, you were doing pretty well up to that point but "great"..........seriously?  "Good" I would certainly concede, but Lord help us if that's all it takes to be a great player for us nowadays :thumbsdown

To be the player of the year in a promotion winning team? And then to be outstanding in a team that was not far away from play offs to the Championship?
That’s great enough for me and I’m sure to any other QP fan who is not carrying out some petty vandetta against him. Can’t think of many QP players in living memory that can boast that sort of record.

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The most important thing is not to finish bottom next season. To do that we need the spine of the team to be solid and of sufficient quality to get us the points against the weaker teams.

Willie Muir, if signed, would fit the bill in the goalkeeping position. We need a fit Gibby and a new centre-half to play along side him. We need a quality midfielder to join McGrory and Magee  and I have high hopes we have that player. We need someone to help David Galt up front to create and score goals. As always this will be the biggest challenge Mark will have.

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9 hours ago, Boris the Spider said:


To be the player of the year in a promotion winning team? And then to be outstanding in a team that was not far away from play offs to the Championship?
That’s great enough for me and I’m sure to any other QP fan who is not carrying out some petty vandetta against him. Can’t think of many QP players in living memory that can boast that sort of record.

Not disputing he was good for us Boris, but we'll just have to disagree on our definition of what makes a great QP player. When I think of "greats" then they are either stalwarts who spent their entire senior careers with us when they could have gone elsewhere (Malky Mackay, Eddie Hunter, Ross Caven, Davie Anderson etc.) or guys who were outstanding for us on their way to a higher level (John McGregor, Alan Irvine, Ian McCall, Jim Gillespie to name a few). Personally, and it's all about opinions, I don't hold Willie Muir in the same esteem.

However, IF Willie did return then he'll get the same level of support from me as does every player to don our jersey (unlike some you'll not be able to accuse me of ever shouting at any player telling him to "chuck it"), but for the reasons stated earlier in this thread I'd far rather see us sign a goalkeeper we can develop than one who has left us twice before.  If you regard that preference as my having a petty vandetta against him Boris, then I think that statement reflects worse on your judgement of people than it does me.

I'd also make this final point. If Willie Muir is indeed the great goalkeeper you claim he is, then this will be an academic debate as there will surely be a host of clubs lining up to offer him professional contracts for his services.

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2 minutes ago, The man with no name said:

Willie Muir, if signed, would fit the bill in the goalkeeping position.

Indeed he would, but IF we have the option of other 'keepers of his (and for comparative example Jordan Hart's) ability, would it not be more prudent to go for one who's less likely to dump us halfway through the season? You rightly identify the spine of the team as the key area, so stability in those positions is very important.

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2 minutes ago, The Spider said:

Indeed he would, but IF we have the option of other 'keepers of his (and for comparative example Jordan Hart's) ability, would it not be more prudent to go for one who's less likely to dump us halfway through the season? 

Or you have a decent backup keeper. 

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Spider - Your "joke" about throwing a milkshake over Wullie if he returned strongly suggested that you would not give him the same support as everyone else.

Glad to see you've seen the errors of your ways and will give him your full support if we are  lucky enough to get him back.

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Muir wasn't playing or earning money. He was being offered money somewhere else. Would have been daft to stay. An extra few bob a month can make a huge difference to the lives of guys at this level in terms of paying rent/mortgages and giving themselves a wee bit of financial breathing space. 

What it does highlight is the huge problem we now have with the notice period that players can use. If we did somehow stumble upon someone who had a Dobbie/Shankland style start to the season, they'd be off in January and leaving us with a huge problem. Footballers will always make decisions based on what is right for their personal circumstances and career, just as most of the rest of us would. 

Edited by an86

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39 minutes ago, an86 said:

 

What it does highlight is the huge problem we now have with the notice period that players can use. If we did somehow stumble upon someone who had a Dobbie/Shankland style start to the season, they'd be off in January 

My understanding is that players can only leave after 28 days notice if they go Junior or amateur and not to a senior club. 

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17 hours ago, The Spider said:

 Muir was a fabulous goalkeeper for us, no doubt about that,

So you're saying he wasn't a great keeper, just fabulous :lol:   oh wait a minute, now he's just a good keeper. Make yer mind up eh

 

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1 hour ago, The man with no name said:

My understanding is that players can only leave after 28 days notice if they go Junior or amateur and not to a senior club. 

Really? Good news, if so. I'd always thought that was part of the Muir situation. Having said that, there's twenty versions of what actually went on. 

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4 hours ago, The Spider said:

Not disputing he was good for us Boris, but we'll just have to disagree on our definition of what makes a great QP player. When I think of "greats" then they are either stalwarts who spent their entire senior careers with us when they could have gone elsewhere (Malky Mackay, Eddie Hunter, Ross Caven, Davie Anderson etc.) or guys who were outstanding for us on their way to a higher level (John McGregor, Alan Irvine, Ian McCall, Jim Gillespie to name a few). Personally, and it's all about opinions, I don't hold Willie Muir in the same esteem.

However, IF Willie did return then he'll get the same level of support from me as does every player to don our jersey (unlike some you'll not be able to accuse me of ever shouting at any player telling him to "chuck it"), but for the reasons stated earlier in this thread I'd far rather see us sign a goalkeeper we can develop than one who has left us twice before.  If you regard that preference as my having a petty vandetta against him Boris, then I think that statement reflects worse on your judgement of people than it does me.

I'd also make this final point. If Willie Muir is indeed the great goalkeeper you claim he is, then this will be an academic debate as there will surely be a host of clubs lining up to offer him professional contracts for his services.

Chuck it!

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58 minutes ago, an86 said:

Really? Good news, if so. I'd always thought that was part of the Muir situation. Having said that, there's twenty versions of what actually went on. 

I was told by a Committee Member at the AGM that the rule states a player must nominate the Club he wishes to join in a letter to the SFA and that Club cannot be another Senior Club. 

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2 hours ago, Mick1867 said:

So you're saying he wasn't a great keeper, just fabulous :lol:   oh wait a minute, now he's just a good keeper. Make yer mind up eh

 

Mick, guilty as charged for failing to explain myself properly. I guess what I'm trying (poorly I admit) to express is that I don't judge a QP great solely on their playing ability. Take Tony Quinn and Gibby as examples. Neither of them are blessed with the natural talent that some of our other greats were blessed with, but in my book both qualify as QP greats because of their attitude, particularly in the face of injury adversity. Willie Muir at his best was a fabulous 'keeper for us, but not as good second time around and the nature of his mid-term departure soured that memory for me so no, whilst perhaps more naturally talented, he's not a great QP player for me in overall context.

I can fully understand why people would have him back in a heartbeat, and if he's the best we can get then I concede it would be daft not to do so, but if it was a choice between him and someone of equal ability ( for example Jordan Hart who continued to play through injury at the end of last season) then I know which one I'd sign if attitude was the deciding factor. At the time Muir left I complained about the message that it sent out to others in the dressing room that if you complain loudly enough the club will back down and let you go (which seemingly continues to be the position if it's to another senior club?). It was always one of the club's most fundamental rules that players would not be released mid-season to turn professional unless deemed surplus to requirements. It's not widely known but Manchester City approached Queen's mid-season to sign Alan Irvine, and Bill Burgess stuck to his guns and politely but firmly told them "no", not to deprive Alan of the opportunity but to re-inforce the message that because of our amateur status we need players who are committed to us for a full season and they voluntarily sign for us on that basis. To relinquish that principle if the above post is indeed factually correct (as I very much hope it is) would be very damaging to us, particularly once the lure of Hampden has gone.

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Pretty sure that when Boris originally called him a great player he was talking more about his ability, not his overall status in our history . I can't speak for him though.

I am well aware of the difference between being "great" and being "a great" For the record, he's one of the best keepers I've ever seen play for us and any player who plays a major role in one of our promotion winning sides is pretty legendary to me  ( we've only had 6 in our history after all)

Edited by Mick1867

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17 minutes ago, Mick1867 said:

For the record, he's one of the best keepers I've ever seen play for us

To put that in perspective Mick, how many seasons is that? I've been a regualr since 1972 so I've seen a lot of good/great Queen's 'keepers over the years, although I've certainly noticed a big drop-off in levels (a bit like strikers they are obviously harder to find nowadays!) in recent years so can understand your statement.

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