Bring Your Own Socks Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Going professional is a lot like Brexit! What does it mean? Offering best youth players minimum wage contracts to ensure compensation; paying a few players minimum wage; paying all players minimum wage; paying some players competitive salaries; who knows? If the vote has a positive result, the committee can do what they see fit and this pandora's box can never be shut again. One thing is certain, the loss of Hampden rent and paying some sort of wages will be a huge financial drain which may be ok for a few years but could end in a disaster far worse than lowland league. All these risks just to try and stay in SPFL 2 ( which Berwick and East Stirling could not do despite paying wages) is one colossal gamble. https://images.app.goo.gl/1Vdk7X34Dyefrpna8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanQP Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Going professional is a lot like Brexit! What does it mean? Offering best youth players minimum wage contracts to ensure compensation; paying a few players minimum wage; paying all players minimum wage; paying some players competitive salaries; who knows? If the vote has a positive result, the committee can do what they see fit and this pandora's box can never be shut again. One thing is certain, the loss of Hampden rent and paying some sort of wages will be a huge financial drain which may be ok for a few years but could end in a disaster far worse than lowland league. All these risks just to try and stay in SPFL 2 ( which Berwick and East Stirling could not do despite paying wages) is one colossal gamble.Watch us drop into the lower leagues and watch fans leave in the droves. Staying Amateur is a higher risk strategy than going semi pro. Why do you think we are going through this process in the first place! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54yrsafan Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Got to go pro or semi pro and what this entails,paying players etc as we were not that much better than Spartans ie get some better players in to help gault block,joffrey or Ll could happen,hope some wins starting sat proves me wrong 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Got to go pro or semi pro and what this entails,paying players etc as we were not that much better than Spartans ie get some better players in to help gault block,joffrey or Ll could happen,hope some wins starting sat proves me wrongI think that the Spartans match actually highlighted that paying the players must go hand in hand with good recruitment (whether via the youth system or otherwise) and coaching. They weren't that good. Ditto Berwick last year. Professionalism didn't save them or Shire. What it will do is give us a better chance of not being the next Berwick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Your Own Socks Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I'd like to just comment on repeated observations about Berwick and Shire as though they are the benchmark for professionalism. Shire for as long as anyone can remember propped up the league and came close to being expelled due to their regular uselessness. They've been homeless since 2008 and were evicted from Firs Park due entirely to poor financial management. They had a go at Community football but no ladder system to youth/academy. When the SPFL introduced a fifth tier I would wager if anyone on here had run a poll of what club was most likely to go first 90%+ would have said the Shire. They even had to borrow our strips one season when theirs didn't arrive in time for the new season. So, nothing like QPFC. Berwick Rangers too have had a history of financial problems. Their current bedfellow, the Berwick Bandits, are hanging by a thread too and, despite Shielfield being the only SFL ground to be subject to the Taylor Report, their park is one of the most dilapidated in the game. No invetsment or basic maintenance in a long time. Their demise was accelerated by the introduction of Edinburgh City to the league and subsequent hit on their player pool. How they never saw that coming is beyond belief. Heids in the sand. No disrespect to their loyal and hard-working fans but neither of these clubs are remotely run as professionally as QPFC. You make your own luck in life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 We all loved them, but I don't think anyone would use Shire as a benchmark and you've probably hit the nail on the head re Berwick's loss of potential player pool; the rise of clubs in the Edinburgh area will probably do for them for a while to come. However, as the more vulnerable clubs tumble out of SPFL 2 and the better Junior sides gear up, we will need to up our game in a sustainable way. Keeping our current infrastructure intact and ensuring that we have a good head coach will both be absolutely crucial. We really have to be aiming to sit comfortably in League 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Your Own Socks Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Anything to learn from here... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiders4ever Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Regan has started for Scotland tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williebraveheart Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, spiders4ever said: Regan has started for Scotland tonight. He'll be pushed to make Elgin in time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow1999 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 20 hours ago, an86 said: What are your ambitions for Queen's Park as an amateur club in senior football and how do you realistically expect to achieve those ambitions? What are your ambitions? Premier league/Champions League? Realistically, league 1 is probably the best which could and has been achieved in recent years. Going professional is risky, there are a lot of clubs who have gone bankrupt and many today on the edge of it. My ambitions, 1) To not be like all the rest, have different values and aims. The Club could have gone pro, many years ago and would have been bigger than the Old Firm. Were the committee wrong then? I don't think so. Being an amateur club in professional leagues is in my opinion a bigger achievement than winning the Champions League. This was not easy and will not get easier. If supporters want a Club who could climb the leagues if some money turns up, they could turn to a club like Clyde. 2) Continue to promote youth. Many clubs at this level dont have this feature as they cannot afford it, because majority of money goes on wages. QPFC could easily fall into this trap. The SFA should promote youth football at all levels and that means rewarding those that do so regardless of their status. The Club have a very strong argument, two of latest Scotland line up came from QPFC youth with many other notably players. Do Scotland and all the other Clubs who have benefitted want to put this at risk or begrudge some reward for all this good work? This should be highlighted and lobbied for a change of heart. 3) Stay financially viable. I dont believe signing some players or given some current players some cash would lead to greater attendances. The Old Firm are not going away and their support is not heading to Mount Florida. However, paying wages is a major added cost and could easily reach six figures. Instead offering other incentives can be a motivating factor. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanQP Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Being amateur is a bigger achievement than winning the champions league? Really? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Glasgow1999 said: What are your ambitions? Premier league/Champions League? Realistically, league 1 is probably the best which could and has been achieved in recent years. Going professional is risky, there are a lot of clubs who have gone bankrupt and many today on the edge of it. My ambitions, 1) To not be like all the rest, have different values and aims. The Club could have gone pro, many years ago and would have been bigger than the Old Firm. Were the committee wrong then? I don't think so. Being an amateur club in professional leagues is in my opinion a bigger achievement than winning the Champions League. This was not easy and will not get easier. If supporters want a Club who could climb the leagues if some money turns up, they could turn to a club like Clyde. 2) Continue to promote youth. Many clubs at this level dont have this feature as they cannot afford it, because majority of money goes on wages. QPFC could easily fall into this trap. The SFA should promote youth football at all levels and that means rewarding those that do so regardless of their status. The Club have a very strong argument, two of latest Scotland line up came from QPFC youth with many other notably players. Do Scotland and all the other Clubs who have benefitted want to put this at risk or begrudge some reward for all this good work? This should be highlighted and lobbied for a change of heart. 3) Stay financially viable. I dont believe signing some players or given some current players some cash would lead to greater attendances. The Old Firm are not going away and their support is not heading to Mount Florida. However, paying wages is a major added cost and could easily reach six figures. Instead offering other incentives can be a motivating factor. The world is rapidly changing around us. How do you we suppose we compete with an increasing number of teams in the pyramid and challenge for promotion? "Lots" of clubs haven't gone bankrupt. Clydebank, Gretna, Airdrie and Rangers doesn't constitute a lot. Every single one of those instances involved questionable characters, massive naivety or corruption on an industrial scale. 1. What are the aims within the values and aims you mention? 2. The youth system is going to change whether we remain amateur or go pro. It would be completely unsustainable in the current form, for reasons that have already been done to death. We are not a boys club, we're a senior football club. Retaining league status dictates everything that will happen at the club. 3. What do other clubs do to survive? The idea that everyone else can, but we can't is just bizarre. Hard to believe folk could have so little faith in their football club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 We have to have aspirations; listening to the current President, it's obvious he has. Let's be honest though, fans in this football mad city are mad about the Old Firm and watching Sky sports in the pub on a Saturday afternoon. Too many of them are kid on fans. Thistle could rustle up 2000 regulars in the Premier. I'd like to see us aim for 1500; a tall order and we'd need to find something to make us different. And, no, I don't know what that might be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiders4ever Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Scotland's winning goal was a Regan assist. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said: We have to have aspirations; listening to the current President, it's obvious he has. Let's be honest though, fans in this football mad city are mad about the Old Firm and watching Sky sports in the pub on a Saturday afternoon. Too many of them are kid on fans. Thistle could rustle up 2000 regulars in the Premier. I'd like to see us aim for 1500; a tall order and we'd need to find something to make us different. And, no, I don't know what that might be. It's going to be a long term process. We're going to have to figure out who we're targeting and how we reach them for a start. Extremely difficult, but you could also say there are far more difficult things to sell in Glasgow than football. It's in the DNA of the city. Will take a great deal of chipping away and persistence, but I think we can attract more punters. We'll have to get things wrong along the way as well in terms of initiatives. I genuinely believe that if we get our name, our badge, and word of our contribution out into the community, we'll get more in return. We shouldn't be embarrassed about talking ourselves up and putting ourselves out there. We've maybe not done as much of that as we could have, for the simple reason that we just didn't have to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Donkey Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 More important than financial modelling (which would have to be vague projections of multiple scenarios), is a good hearing of the reasoning behind the views for both routes, and on the type of club we want. That's why I'm interested in what Glasgow 1999 has to say. I have to agree with the points about a strong youth system, and I understand the proud history and 'specialness' of the club, but given the importance of the decision, I'm surprised he/she is the only one to offer anything for the staus quo.As it stands, I'm guessing that even the most teary-eyed traditionalist will see the huge risk in staying an amateur club in the current sutuation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow1999 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, NathanQP said: Being amateur is a bigger achievement than winning the champions league? Really? Yes of course. To win the Champions League or to be successful in major leagues money is required. Many teams have won it. Given enough money any team can progress, remember Gretna? But to compete against professionals as amateurs for so many years - nothing but amazing! How many have done that? Edited October 25, 2019 by Glasgow1999 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanQP Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Yes of course. To win the Champions League or to be successful in major leagues money is required. Given enough money any team can progress, remember Gretna? But to compete against professionals as amateurs for so many years - nothing but amazing!There was no relegation for so many years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Reilly Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 It's going to be a long term process. We're going to have to figure out who we're targeting and how we reach them for a start. Extremely difficult, but you could also say there are far more difficult things to sell in Glasgow than football. It's in the DNA of the city. Will take a great deal of chipping away and persistence, but I think we can attract more punters. We'll have to get things wrong along the way as well in terms of initiatives. I genuinely believe that if we get our name, our badge, and word of our contribution out into the community, we'll get more in return. We shouldn't be embarrassed about talking ourselves up and putting ourselves out there. We've maybe not done as much of that as we could have, for the simple reason that we just didn't have to. What he said. Nothing to add. Excellent post. [emoji106] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow1999 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 12 hours ago, NathanQP said: There was no relegation for so many years Yes but how many times did QPFC finish bottom? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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