Queen's Park 2019/20

[Ben Reilly]

A lower quality of player than is currently playing for nothing?

I believe players accept playing for nothing at QP as they know the facilities are good, the Glasgow location appeals to many, and they consider us (and League 2) a step on the ladder to later playing (and paid) at a higher level. IF we are in the lowland league then the location and facilities may well not be enough to persuade better players that its still worth playing for nothing on that first step when East Kilbride, Kelty etc will pay them and be challenging for promotion.

[Ben Reilly]

Yes but some who moved were not first team regulars and their replacements have been as good if not better!

That may well be the case, but it might not be next summer. This summer we did well to rebuild the squad with as many decent players as we did, but if 18 first team squad players leave again in May, who's to say we'll find so many good players from the lower/junior leagues again. Being able to offer players money doesn't guarantee we'll sign the best players, but it has to increase our chances.

[Ben Reilly]

Stay amateur, offer players good coaching and facilities. Sweat the asset of lesser hampden; hire out pitch and building, take loan players which would mean cash reserves will last much longer. What players would be ditched to bring in professionals? Losing rent from Hampden and adding thousands in wages does not make sense to me! How much more money could we possibly make if we go pro? More likely to loose money.

I like to think I'm a glass half full person, and perhaps I'm being naive, but surely all clubs make a fair proportion of their money from ticket sales, prize money and the sale of players.
I like to think that the move away from Hampden combined with the switch to professionalism isn't just about surviving, but presents an opportunity to grow and be more successful as a club.
It wont happen over night, and may take years, but we have as much, if not more, potential than any team in league 2 to challenge higher up the leagues.
If we can attract and/or keep a higher standard of players by offering them similar money to other teams, but potentially better facilities and location, then we give ourselves a better chance of success on the pitch, which increases revenue.
With success on the pitch, and crucially with the right promotion of the club in the community, we can attract more people to attend games, which increases revenue.
People wont come out in numbers to see us play in the lowland league, but if we can create a buzz about a club that is competing well in the SPFL, and market ourselves as a local, affordable, family friendly alternative to the old firm then we give ourselves a chance of increasing the fan base/membership/revenue.
I've said before that our location gives us a big advantage over other teams both for attracting players and supporters (home and away), and the potential for a better atmosphere at our new ground can only help with that.
I'm not saying it'll be easy, and I dont have all the answers, but I do believe the opportunity is there for us to go on to greater success. I also believe that opportunity is far less likely if we remain amateur.

[an86]

6 minutes ago, Ben Reilly said:

I like to think I'm a glass half full person, and perhaps I'm being naive, but surely all clubs make a fair proportion of their money from ticket sales, prize money and the sale of players.
I like to think that the move away from Hampden combined with the switch to professionalism isn't just about surviving, but presents an opportunity to grow and be more successful as a club.
It wont happen over night, and may take years, but we have as much, if not more, potential than any team in league 2 to challenge higher up the leagues.
If we can attract and/or keep a higher standard of players by offering them similar money to other teams, but potentially better facilities and location, then we give ourselves a better chance of success on the pitch, which increases revenue.
With success on the pitch, and crucially with the right promotion of the club in the community, we can attract more people to attend games, which increases revenue.
People wont come out in numbers to see us play in the lowland league, but if we can create a buzz about a club that is competing well in the SPFL, and market ourselves as a local, affordable, family friendly alternative to the old firm then we give ourselves a chance of increasing the fan base/membership/revenue.
I've said before that our location gives us a big advantage over other teams both for attracting players and supporters (home and away), and the potential for a better atmosphere at our new ground can only help with that.
I'm not saying it'll be easy, and I dont have all the answers, but I do believe the opportunity is there for us to go on to greater success. I also believe that opportunity is far less likely if we remain amateur.

Agree with every single word of this. 

[Cowden Cowboy]

I like to think I'm a glass half full person, and perhaps I'm being naive, but surely all clubs make a fair proportion of their money from ticket sales, prize money and the sale of players.
I like to think that the move away from Hampden combined with the switch to professionalism isn't just about surviving, but presents an opportunity to grow and be more successful as a club.
It wont happen over night, and may take years, but we have as much, if not more, potential than any team in league 2 to challenge higher up the leagues.
If we can attract and/or keep a higher standard of players by offering them similar money to other teams, but potentially better facilities and location, then we give ourselves a better chance of success on the pitch, which increases revenue.
With success on the pitch, and crucially with the right promotion of the club in the community, we can attract more people to attend games, which increases revenue.
People wont come out in numbers to see us play in the lowland league, but if we can create a buzz about a club that is competing well in the SPFL, and market ourselves as a local, affordable, family friendly alternative to the old firm then we give ourselves a chance of increasing the fan base/membership/revenue.
I've said before that our location gives us a big advantage over other teams both for attracting players and supporters (home and away), and the potential for a better atmosphere at our new ground can only help with that.
I'm not saying it'll be easy, and I dont have all the answers, but I do believe the opportunity is there for us to go on to greater success. I also believe that opportunity is far less likely if we remain amateur.

Not being based at Hampden any more though is a big downside surely and I doubt there are many SPFL 1&2 clubs nowadays making a fair proportion of their income from the sale of players or including that in their budget

[houstonspider]

Anyone else been keeping an eye on the highlights being put up on YouTube of the teams in the Lowland League. Nathan Austin is playing for Kelty and scoring for fun. The threat below us is there for all to see. Imagine our current side with a striker who is proven at our level. You need to pay decent money to get that.

[an86]

8 minutes ago, houstonspider said:

Anyone else been keeping an eye on the highlights being put up on YouTube of the teams in the Lowland League. Nathan Austin is playing for Kelty and scoring for fun. The threat below us is there for all to see. Imagine our current side with a striker who is proven at our level. You need to pay decent money to get that.

Another attraction about going pro. Imagine being able to compete to sign someone you know can actually score goals at this level.

[Hampden Diehard]

Agree with every single word of this. 

Indeed; we have to seize the opportunities that the unfortunately shitty situation we find ourselves in will present. We can have a decent future but we do need a united and focused support and committee to take advantage of, and develop, these opportunities.

[Hampden Diehard]

Not being based at Hampden any more though is a big downside surely and I doubt there are many SPFL 1&2 clubs nowadays making a fair proportion of their income from the sale of players or including that in their budget

It would indeed be a bit naive to assume that we'll be coining it in from player sales and to rely on this. We are fortunate to have a top notch youth and scouting system; retaining them both will be crucial to our future.

[Hampden Diehard]

Another attraction about going pro. Imagine being able to compete to sign someone you know can actually score goals at this level.

Will we ever have enough cash to sign the likes of Austin? He's supposedly on £300 a week basic. That's a big chunk out of (say) a kitty of £100k a year for wages.

[an86]

4 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

33 minutes ago, an86 said:

Another attraction about going pro. Imagine being able to compete to sign someone you know can actually score goals at this level.

Will we ever have enough cash to sign the likes of Austin? He's supposedly on £300 a week basic. That's a big chunk out of (say) a kitty of £100k a year for wages.

Not Austin, specifically. He's come from a right decent level. I'm sure we could all rhyme off a list of suspects over the years who've done a number on us and generally known where the goal is on a regular basis. The sort of Craig Malcolm figures of this world. It'd be good to be in the market for that type of goalscorer. 

[Ben Reilly]

Not being based at Hampden any more though is a big downside surely and I doubt there are many SPFL 1&2 clubs nowadays making a fair proportion of their income from the sale of players or including that in their budget

The loss of rental income from Hampden is obviously a downside, but (again glass half full) there are a number of advantages to NOT playing at Hampden, for both home and away fans, such as better atmosphere, closer to the pitch, cheaper pies. I assume the overheads will be lower (although admittedly I dont know how much of that was offset by the rental income), which may make it possible to make ticket prices more affordable. All of the above have potential to attract more fans, home and away, and increase income from admission. It's possible that this could in turn attract more members and therfore increase income there too.

[Cowden Cowboy]

The loss of rental income from Hampden is obviously a downside, but (again glass half full) there are a number of advantages to NOT playing at Hampden, for both home and away fans, such as better atmosphere, closer to the pitch, cheaper pies. I assume the overheads will be lower (although admittedly I dont know how much of that was offset by the rental income), which may make it possible to make ticket prices more affordable. All of the above have potential to attract more fans, home and away, and increase income from admission. It's possible that this could in turn attract more members and therfore increase income there too.

But some fans maybe presently come because the game is at Hampden - thus Hampden itself is an attraction. Same as some players are willing to play for Queens because they are based at Hampden. Reduced ticket prices might decrease income from admission - otherwise why wouldn't you just have done that already? Have been at matches at Lesser and can't remember much of a better atmosphere. Isn't the reality of all this simply that Queens now need to pay wages to continue to compete in SPFL2 given the changes (pyramid, increased averaged players wage levels in L2, amateurs when League is specifically branded Scottish Professional Football League, etc) now impacting.

[an86]

8 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

But some fans maybe presently come because the game is at Hampden - thus Hampden itself is an attraction. Same as some players are willing to play for Queens because they are based at Hampden. Reduced ticket prices might decrease income from admission - otherwise why wouldn't you just have done that already? Have been at matches at Lesser and can't remember much of a better atmosphere. Isn't the reality of all this simply that Queens now need to pay wages to continue to compete in SPFL2 given the changes (pyramid, increased averaged players wage levels in L2, amateurs when League is specifically branded Scottish Professional Football League, etc) now impacting.

I honestly don't think that's the case. You rarely hear a positive review from away supports. Many complain, rightly or wrongly, about the view. That's not one I particularly agree with. However, they rightly complain about having to take out a crisis loan if they want a pie, as well as the eerie atmosphere. Although there are some great memories of Hampden, and it's woven into our fabric, I've only heard positivity about Lesser from the folk I speak to. 

Nobody is expecting Lesser to be a cauldron, but it should be a better atmosphere. It won't be recognisable from the season we played there in 98/99. We do make a bit of noise on the road, certainly more so than most teams who visit Hampden, so I'd hope we could generate some sort of atmosphere. 

I think the club being literally on the doorstep is also a huge positive and something we could make more of. The lager is pish, right enough. Tear up the Belhaven contract and give the masses the supply of Vitamin T that they desire. 

[Ben Reilly]

But some fans maybe presently come because the game is at Hampden - thus Hampden itself is an attraction. Same as some players are willing to play for Queens because they are based at Hampden. Reduced ticket prices might decrease income from admission - otherwise why wouldn't you just have done that already? Have been at matches at Lesser and can't remember much of a better atmosphere. Isn't the reality of all this simply that Queens now need to pay wages to continue to compete in SPFL2 given the changes (pyramid, increased averaged players wage levels in L2, amateurs when League is specifically branded Scottish Professional Football League, etc) now impacting.

Yes, your last sentence is spot on and the simple reality is that all these changes have forced us to consider the way the club goes forward.
My point however is that now that we are considering our options let's make the choices that give us the best opportunities for future success. By success I mean results on the pitch, youth development, match attendance, finances, links with the community, all of which should be part of the vision for the future.
I agree that Hampden is a draw for some away fans, as well as some home fans, occasional visitors to Glasgow, ground hoppers etc. However I would have thought that the novelty for away fans of coming to Hampden would wear off after a few visits, especially given the drawbacks of having 450 people in a 52,000 seater stadium.
One other potential disadvantage we have at Hampden is that some opposition players get a lift playing there against us, where again the novelty wears off from our players once they've done it once a fortnight for 8 months.
I have no idea how the ticket prices are decided, or why they keep increasing rather than decreasing, but I'm highlighting it as something I think we could and should consider. (Personally I think that £270 for a season ticket for one adult and one child, when 3 years ago it was £170 for one adult and up to four children is a backwards step.) Decreasing ticket prices decreases income if the attendance stays the same, but if dropping prices and doing the marketing to increase attendance is done correctly then it could easily increase income. For example, let kids in free with an adult and dont charge a fortune for chips and a coke and it's more appealing and affordable for more people, and therefore there's potential for increased ticket revenue.
As for Lesser, as it is at the moment it wouldn't necessarily be a better atmosphere, but with the planned upgrades it very well could be.

[Cowden Cowboy]

Yes, your last sentence is spot on and the simple reality is that all these changes have forced us to consider the way the club goes forward.
My point however is that now that we are considering our options let's make the choices that give us the best opportunities for future success. By success I mean results on the pitch, youth development, match attendance, finances, links with the community, all of which should be part of the vision for the future.
I agree that Hampden is a draw for some away fans, as well as some home fans, occasional visitors to Glasgow, ground hoppers etc. However I would have thought that the novelty for away fans of coming to Hampden would wear off after a few visits, especially given the drawbacks of having 450 people in a 52,000 seater stadium.
One other potential disadvantage we have at Hampden is that some opposition players get a lift playing there against us, where again the novelty wears off from our players once they've done it once a fortnight for 8 months.
I have no idea how the ticket prices are decided, or why they keep increasing rather than decreasing, but I'm highlighting it as something I think we could and should consider. (Personally I think that £270 for a season ticket for one adult and one child, when 3 years ago it was £170 for one adult and up to four children is a backwards step.) Decreasing ticket prices decreases income if the attendance stays the same, but if dropping prices and doing the marketing to increase attendance is done correctly then it could easily increase income. For example, let kids in free with an adult and dont charge a fortune for chips and a coke and it's more appealing and affordable for more people, and therefore there's potential for increased ticket revenue.
As for Lesser, as it is at the moment it wouldn't necessarily be a better atmosphere, but with the planned upgrades it very well could be.

You always hear about this great potential to increase income by dropping prices - there's a reason clubs don't do that as they tend to have experience in optimising their pricing to derive the best return. Folks love to suggest cutting prices as a panacea but it rarely works - a winning team is the best model for driving income up. There should already be marketing in place surely driving pricing and offers - it's not a new invention

[Bring Your Own Socks]

I honestly don't think that's the case. You rarely hear a positive review from away supports. Many complain, rightly or wrongly, about the view. That's not one I particularly agree with. However, they rightly complain about having to take out a crisis loan if they want a pie, as well as the eerie atmosphere. Although there are some great memories of Hampden, and it's woven into our fabric, I've only heard positivity about Lesser from the folk I speak to. 
Nobody is expecting Lesser to be a cauldron, but it should be a better atmosphere. It won't be recognisable from the season we played there in 98/99. We do make a bit of noise on the road, certainly more so than most teams who visit Hampden, so I'd hope we could generate some sort of atmosphere. 
I think the club being literally on the doorstep is also a huge positive and something we could make more of. The lager is pish, right enough. Tear up the Belhaven contract and give the masses the supply of Vitamin T that they desire. 

You were getting a greeny until the last sentence. No Best, no fitba.

[NathanQP]

My head hurts reading this thread nowadays. Special treatment because we are a special club, some people will believe anything!

[Glasgow1999]

2 hours ago, NathanQP said:

My head hurts reading this thread nowadays. Special treatment because we are a special club, some people will believe anything!

If you dont think QPFC is a special Club which is different to all the rest I really worry!

[NathanQP]

If you dont think QPFC is a special Club which is different to all the rest I really worry!

I don’t think the SFA and other clubs think that way.