Queen's Park 2019/20

[Bring Your Own Socks]

I don't agree. If we're told that staying amateur is not sustainable but going semi-professional is then they should already have financial forecasts in place. I am not saying that these should be in fine detail but should be in enough detail to support the proposition. This would also enable the rest of us to form an opinion as to the validity of the assumptions being made and the strength of the case for change.

Everything an86 said. They’re not “telling” us anything, they’re asking.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Do QP players genuinely not get paid? I always assumed it was cash in hand and everyone just agreed not to mention it.

[spiders4ever]

4 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

Everything an86 said. They’re not “telling” us anything, they’re asking.

Before we make decision one way or the other we need to know the likely financial implications for amateur or semi- professional.  

[roger ram jet]

Well if QP do turn professional I don’t see what the problem would be, they’d be in the same boat as every other club, but unlike every other club they are not restricted to being in a small town for sponsorship opportunities, they reside in the 3rd largest city in the British isles, I’m sure with the correct backroom team they can use a good PR team to attract sponsors when they’re not involved in an amateur mentality which probably scares off serious sponsors, always remember there’s thousands of Glaswegians who cannot stomach the 2 “big”ot teams, a lot of them have turned to watching Glasgow warriors, why not Queen’s Park?

[Bring Your Own Socks]

Before we make decision one way or the other we need to know the likely financial implications for amateur or semi- professional.  

That would be one way to look at it. Or you could just crack on and make it work. Anyone who's bought a house with a 25 year mortgage will vouch for that. Fortune favours the brave.

I'm certain the committee have enough of a picture to know what's the best option. Last night's meeting was a call-to-arms. Quite clearly they want the fans to buy-in. For them to produce details at this stage would have demonstrated they know which way to go which would have meant our views weren't really required.

[roger ram jet]

You know what, I had a think about what I wrote there and QP would not be the same attraction if they went professional, I suppose that’s part of the enjoyment of watching them, waiting with anticipation on seeing who they’ve managed to get a hold of for the following season, giving guys from the juniors a chance etc, they’ll always survive because they sign guys with a point to prove playing for free

[spiders4ever]

9 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

That would be one way to look at it. Or you could just crack on and make it work. Anyone who's bought a house with a 25 year mortgage will vouch for that. Fortune favours the brave.

I'm certain the committee have enough of a picture to know what's the best option. Last night's meeting was a call-to-arms. Quite clearly they want the fans to buy-in. For them to produce details at this stage would have demonstrated they know which way to go which would have meant our views weren't really required.

No facts (as best known) no buy in. 

[spiders4ever]

Let's start with the obvious. What was the financial outturn last season? What income will be gone after we leave Hampden? What deficit will that result in? Will we run at a profit or loss on match days and season tickets if they remain constant. Do we expect to generate more advertising and sponsorship at Lesser? All of this as amateurs. What would be the cost of a professional squad? How would we cover the cost? Would there be an impact on our youth programme which is meant to provide us with loads of money? We can't make a reasoned judgement on what to do without the best figures available and a detailed explanation of the assumptions made. Given the enormity of the decision it is not good enough to say that someone else knows best. Full transparency is needed.

[microdave]

That raises a very important point JT which just occurred to me. Consider the following two scenarios (based on the assumption we were a professional club) :
a) We have an U-17 player who has been with us for several seasons working who attracts attention with his performances and potential, and one of the old firm come in for him before we even have the chance to get him in the first team. in this circumstance I understand we would be entitled to the compensation that our business model would potentially be based on?
b) We have an U-17 player who has been with us for several seasons working who attracts attention with his performances and potential, but nobody comes in for him because they aren't willing to take the gamble of paying for him. The player, who had become aware of the interest in him, becomes a bit disillusioned, his form drops and he simply leaves at the end of the season becoming "out of contract". 6 months later a club takes him on trial and then sign him on the basis that he was a free agent. Are we entitled to anything? Genuinely don't know the answer.

With your second option, I'm fairly sure that a development fee would be applicable as long as the club offer him a contract at least on par with his previous one. I think that rule applies up to the age of about 22/23 but it could've changed.

Fwiw, I think QP should turn professional but I can understand why some fans may be dead against it. You've got a great history in Scottish football and it would be a crying shame if you were to disappear.

[bobthespider]

Do you want to wake up and see a Queens Park under 18 against civil service strollers in front of 100 fans or a team being allowed to compete in the spfl and everyone looking forward to Saturday.
We have one go at this !

[an86]

4 minutes ago, spiders4ever said:

Let's start with the obvious. What was the financial outturn last season? What income will be gone after we leave Hampden? What deficit will that result in? Will we run at a profit or loss on match days and season tickets if they remain constant. Do we expect to generate more advertising and sponsorship at Lesser? All of this as amateurs. What would be the cost of a professional squad? How would we cover the cost? Would there be an impact on our youth programme which is meant to provide us with loads of money? We can't make a reasoned judgement on what to do without the best figures available and a detailed explanation of the assumptions made. Given the enormity of the decision it is not good enough to say that someone else knows best. Full transparency is needed.

What income would we have as an amateur Lowland League club? What level of player would we attract? How would we fund the youth system? How would we attract new supporters? If you want a detailed plan for one side, you'd surely want one for the above scenario? 

We're not going to get exact figures on either circumstance. Estimates are all we can ever realistically hope for. The idea that we, as a club with assets such as a social club and pitch available for rent in the Southside of Glasgow, can't do this is incredible. We have clubs in crumbling stadiums, geographically disadvantaged, with smaller fan bases who do it. 

Yes, there are debates to be had about the hows and how much. For me, the raw ingredients to lay the foundations for a successful club, though. What do other clubs at this level have that we either don't have or cannot potentially have? Assets and geography put us in an infinitely stronger position than many. 

[spiders4ever]

A couple of comments about other semi-professional teams. Two of them have gone down to the Lowland League. Turning professional doesn't guarantee staying up. I don't think that any club outside of the Premier has anything like our youth set up. Lower league sides survive by having no youth system. Would going professional mean the end of our youth set up? The figures are all important.

Edited July 26, 2019 by spiders4ever
Missing word

[Ben Reilly]

I'm assuming that those posting on here looking for figures and business plans were not at the meeting last night. The reason for the meeting was to gauge opinion of suporters/members. As has been stated, there is no point in spending time, effort and money on the figures and details if the majority of fans are against the change to semi pro. If the outcome of last night's exit poll is that the majority are for the change in principle THEN the committee know that it is worth fleshing out the details and gathering more information for consideration. While a lot of figures etc. will be estimates, I dont believe it was ever suggested that there wouldn't be a business plan presented later down the line if that's the direction we're heading. As has been said by others, this is only the (very sensible and important) first step of many in the process.
I was very impressed with how the president and other committee members spoke last night, and applaud the fact that they are involving supporters (not just members) in the discussions right from the start.
It sounds like there will be further similair meetings, and I would encourage all who weren't there last night to make every effort to attend and have their say.
Yes there will be a lot of detail to be fleshed out before any real decisions are made, but the committee needed to know if there was enough appetite for the change to make the effort worthwhile.
Personally, I left the meeting very encouraged that what I felt was the majority were excited about the opportunities for growth, sucess or maybe just survival, that are in front of us if we make the step onto professionalism.
Almost all of the barriers presented by those who wish to stay amateur will be their regardless of our status (lack of income from Hampden, need for sponsorship etc.)
Another interesting point raised was that one of the committee had met recently with two former club captains who both said they would never have left if we had been pro.
Apologies for the long rambling/stream of conscious post.

[Ben Reilly]

Also, i was excited by the images shown last night of the idea for the redevelopment of lesser. Looks like the makings of a great wee ground for a club looking to compete in league 2 or hopefully league 1, but as was said, theres no point in having all that as an amateur team struggling to compete in the lowland league.

[bridgeofweirdo]

All this speculation is all good and well but more impotantly how much will a pie and bovril be?

[Brazilianlex]

Bottom line is that the spfl threw a member Club QP under a bus when they  introduced the trapdoor.

despicable b*****ds imo !

[an86]

37 minutes ago, spiders4ever said:

A couple of comments about other semi-professional teams. Two of them have gone down to the Lowland League. Turning professional doesn't guarantee staying up. I don't think that any club outside of the Premier has anything like our youth set up. Lower league sides survive by having no youth system. Would going professional mean the end of our youth set up? The figures are all important.

Nobody has or ever would be daft enough to suggest going pro would save us from relegation. This is about what gives us the best chance of competing at the highest possible level. 

Everything around the club has changed, regardless of what decision we make. Remaining amateur is not the status quo. The status quo is dead because of the circumstances we've found ourselves in. We'll have to restructure either way. 

[an86]

3 minutes ago, Brazilianlex said:

Bottom line is that the spfl threw a member Club QP under a bus when they  introduced the trapdoor.

despicable b*****ds imo !

Don't think I've spoken to any QP fan who wasn't in favour of the trapdoor. We've no divine right to be a league club, nor are we a special case. We're competing in a professional league and if we're not good enough, then we're not good enough. Same as everyone else. 

[Bring Your Own Socks]

Let's start with the obvious. What was the financial outturn last season? What income will be gone after we leave Hampden? What deficit will that result in? Will we run at a profit or loss on match days and season tickets if they remain constant. Do we expect to generate more advertising and sponsorship at Lesser? All of this as amateurs. What would be the cost of a professional squad? How would we cover the cost? Would there be an impact on our youth programme which is meant to provide us with loads of money? We can't make a reasoned judgement on what to do without the best figures available and a detailed explanation of the assumptions made. Given the enormity of the decision it is not good enough to say that someone else knows best. Full transparency is needed.

You weren't at the meeting were you?

[Bring Your Own Socks]

All this speculation is all good and well but more impotantly how much will a pie and bovril be?

Free of the shackles of the SFA and Sodexo I would say much cheaper. Percentages to follow at step 4. We might even have pies that aren't welded into the tray.