NathanQP Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I understand that a former QP player was on £250 at Stennie pus bonus money for winning and that he is getting more at his current club. I will repeat myself, QP will not be able to go Pro.How do other clubs of our size survive as Semi-Pro. We will just be structured differently if we go Semi-Pro - less youths basically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Dooflick said: I understand that a former QP player was on £250 at Stennie pus bonus money for winning and that he is getting more at his current club. I will repeat myself, QP will not be able to go Pro. I will repeat myself. How do the other clubs in the lower leagues manage it? Particularly those with smaller supports than us? The operating model will have to change and income streams will have to be found. The question is not whether we can afford to go pro, but whether we can afford to remain amateur? If we're an amateur club in the Lowland League, we'll struggle even to compete at that level for various reasons. Other teams in the west juniors and LL will be paying players and our youth system will not be able to operate beyond a very basic level. Who is going to play for us? What new fans are going to come and watch us? That's where I worry about the slow death. Semi-pro is no guarantee of success. It's not even a guarantee of retaining league status. What it does do is open us up to the market of a wider pool of players. It's also ridiculous to mention £250 per week as if it's the norm. It absolutely isn't. Edited July 2, 2019 by an86 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 5 hours ago, an86 said: I will repeat myself. How do the other clubs in the lower leagues manage it? Particularly those with smaller supports than us? Simply looking at that portion of your post in isolation, I'd say in most cases it's because they have a community identity (the town club), and therefore have a wider stream of goodwill and revenue to draw on. As many have previously pointed out on this forum (from memory yourself included?), over the years our club have repeatedly failed to reach out to the huge catchment area within a mile's radius, and therefore don't have that historical goodwill. Perhaps there's a potential business model that may be able to circumvent that obstacle, but if anyone thinks that people in our neighbourhood will respond favourably to a leaflet drop effectively saying "I know we've ignored you for decades but now we've sold Hampden we're a wee bit short of money to pay our players so could you please sponsor a player or take out some trackside advertising" then I'd suggest that strategy wouldn't work as well for us as it would for a Berwick, Brechin or Cowden for example (or even a Pollok!) who have relied on their community identities ever since they were formed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol1867 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Lost 2-0 to a strong Ayr United team at Lesser. Encouraging display though with some of the new players looking promising particularly on the wings. Starting team was 3421 Muir Magee Gibson Little (largs) Grant Mcgrory Thompson( youth) Clark Galt Purdew (Morton) Kouider-Aissa (Kilsyth) Moore , Mortimer, Martin among those who came off the bench in the second half. For a first outing i was pretty encouraged but hopefully we can add an experienced centre midfielder before the real stuff starts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qpfc Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Skol1867 said: Lost 2-0 to a strong Ayr United team at Lesser. Encouraging display though with some of the new players looking promising particularly on the wings. Starting team was 3421 Muir Magee Gibson Little (largs) Grant Mcgrory Thompson( youth) Clark Galt Purdew (Morton) Kouider-Aissa (Kilsyth) Moore , Mortimer, Martin among those who came off the bench in the second half. For a first outing i was pretty encouraged but hopefully we can add an experienced centre midfielder before the real stuff starts. Was really impressed by the team considering it was our first game. Purdew and Thompson in particular looking very good additions. Liked the look of the striker that came on as a sub called Alfie, strong and skilful on the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, The Spider said: Simply looking at that portion of your post in isolation, I'd say in most cases it's because they have a community identity (the town club), and therefore have a wider stream of goodwill and revenue to draw on. As many have previously pointed out on this forum (from memory yourself included?), over the years our club have repeatedly failed to reach out to the huge catchment area within a mile's radius, and therefore don't have that historical goodwill. Perhaps there's a potential business model that may be able to circumvent that obstacle, but if anyone thinks that people in our neighbourhood will respond favourably to a leaflet drop effectively saying "I know we've ignored you for decades but now we've sold Hampden we're a wee bit short of money to pay our players so could you please sponsor a player or take out some trackside advertising" then I'd suggest that strategy wouldn't work as well for us as it would for a Berwick, Brechin or Cowden for example (or even a Pollok!) who have relied on their community identities ever since they were formed. I'd say that we have a bigger support than the three senior teams you've mentioned. We've not put ourselves out there enough and that will have to change, but we're certainly not going to be any worse off then any other side in that sense. Every small club struggles for supporters. If we remaln amateur, what is the realistic expectation? The lower level of Scottish football is changing around us. We cannot afford to stand still. I don't believe that changing our status guarantees success, but I do believe that failure to change will harm the long term future of the football club substantially. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, an86 said: I'd say that we have a bigger support than the three senior teams you've mentioned. We've not put ourselves out there enough and that will have to change, but we're certainly not going to be any worse off then any other side in that sense. Every small club struggles for supporters. If we remaln amateur, what is the realistic expectation? The lower level of Scottish football is changing around us. We cannot afford to stand still. I don't believe that changing our status guarantees success, but I do believe that failure to change will harm the long term future of the football club substantially. I've made it clear that I'm not in favour of the club turning professional, but if it was the only way for the club to survive and if there was a sensible business model then at least I could respect that course of action. Ever since Caven's henchmen covertly approached selected members a few years ago to sound them out for their potential support I've asked one question, and have yet to receive a plausible response - given that much of youth expenditure comes from grants, fundraising and donations, where would the additional income or cost cutting come from to fund the extra £100k on our wagebill? That estimate (based on a squad on the minimum wage) doesn't include transfer market activity, but if you are signing players under freedom of contract I doubt they are any better players than those we are picking up at the moment so if the argument is that we will need a better quailty of player in order to survive (not even thrive) at this level then even more money will have to be found. Over the years I've met professional players who have played against us, and most say they disliked playing Queen's more than others at our level because our players generally speaking tried harder than their professional equivalents. Yes you may get a better quality of player, but I doubt you'll get the same shift from them than (for example) Billy Mortimer puts in. I believe we are approaching the classic "stick or twist" moment in our history where the wrong decision could be disastrous, but genuinely trying to be objective and putting my partisan feelings to one side I remain to be convinced that turning professional would produce a different outcome in the long run from the fate recently suffered by East Stirling and Berwick. So let me answer your question with a question .If we turn professional, what is the realistic expectation? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, The Spider said: So let me answer your question with a question .If we turn professional, what is the realistic expectation? A better chance of league survival. Our geographic location puts us in an immediately decent position in comparison to the likes of a Stranraer or an Annan. Heard from a very good source tonight that a popular ex-QP player was on his way back to Hampden until the lure of a signing on fee from a junior club changed his mind. I only see risk in not having a crack at semi-pro. For me, relegation is practically inevitable in the relatively near future if we allow ourselves to ignore the changing environment around us. I wish it wasn't happening, but it is. If we go down as an amateur club, it's likely that we'll even struggle to compete at Lowland League level. Then what? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Desmond Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 51 minutes ago, The Spider said: Yes you may get a better quality of player, but I doubt you'll get the same shift from them than (for example) Billy Mortimer puts in. Imagine if all the teams that pumped us last season had actually been trying. Jeezo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qpfc Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 53 minutes ago, an86 said: A better chance of league survival. Our geographic location puts us in an immediately decent position in comparison to the likes of a Stranraer or an Annan. Heard from a very good source tonight that a popular ex-QP player was on his way back to Hampden until the lure of a signing on fee from a junior club changed his mind. I only see risk in not having a crack at semi-pro. For me, relegation is practically inevitable in the relatively near future if we allow ourselves to ignore the changing environment around us. I wish it wasn't happening, but it is. If we go down as an amateur club, it's likely that we'll even struggle to compete at Lowland League level. Then what? Who was the rumoured ex QP player ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The man with no name Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 17 hours ago, NathanQP said: How do other clubs of our size survive as Semi-Pro. We will just be structured differently if we go Semi-Pro - less youths basically. Disagree with this. Going professional is the only way to save our Youth system. Staying amateur will kill it as we will no longer be able to afford it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 8 hours ago, qpfc said: Who was the rumoured ex QP player ? Mark Ferry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanQP Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Disagree with this. Going professional is the only way to save our Youth system. Staying amateur will kill it as we will no longer be able to afford it.I never suggested killing the Youth System, it will certainly have to be downsized though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Your Own Socks Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, an86 said: Mark Ferry It's stuff like that chokes me. Bad enough taking second prize against the likes of Stenny or Rovers but it's tragic a junior team can beat us too. I know some of them have good set-ups etc but we're a senior team and the sooner we behave like that the better. Scottish football owes us nothing now. We have to make our own way and if clubs like Pollok can do it why can't Queen's Park. Frankly, it was embarrassing to hear some of the speeches given by senior hands at the club in the sesquicentennial year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 10 hours ago, an86 said: Heard from a very good source tonight that a popular ex-QP player was on his way back to Hampden until the lure of a signing on fee from a junior club changed his mind. 9 hours ago, qpfc said: Who was the rumoured ex QP player ? 35 minutes ago, an86 said: Mark Ferry Oh. So not Willie Muir then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said: It's stuff like that chokes me. Bad enough taking second prize against the likes of Stenny or Rovers but it's tragic a junior team can beat us too. I know some of them have good set-ups etc but we're a senior team and the sooner we behave like that the better. Scottish football owes us nothing now. We have to make our own way and if clubs like Pollok can do it why can't Queen's Park. Frankly, it was embarrassing to hear some of the speeches given by senior hands at the club in the sesquicentennial year. Ferry was one of the players I hoped we'd go for, but I didn't know that we actually had been talking to him. He'd have been exactly what was needed for a squad with a lot of young, inexperienced players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanQP Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 our players generally speaking tried harder than their professional equivalents. Yes you may get a better quality of player, but I doubt you'll get the same shift from them than (for example) Billy Mortimer puts in.Do you genuinely think our players try harder because we don’t pay them or is it because we recruit players with that attitude and paying them a wage wouldn’t change their attitude. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an86 Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share Posted July 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, The Spider said: Oh. So not Willie Muir then He played last night, albeit he didn't have a great deal to do. Fantastic to see him and DC back at the club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 10 hours ago, an86 said: A better chance of league survival. Our geographic location puts us in an immediately decent position in comparison to the likes of a Stranraer or an Annan. I only see risk in not having a crack at semi-pro. For me, relegation is practically inevitable in the relatively near future if we allow ourselves to ignore the changing environment around us. I wish it wasn't happening, but it is. If we go down as an amateur club, it's likely that we'll even struggle to compete at Lowland League level. Then what? I respect that point of view but (obviously) there's no guarantee that we wouldn't go down as an professional club either, and then how do you continue to pay the minimum wages (no reduction for Lowland League I'm afraid) with much reduced income? Perhaps we're in a "damned if we do, damned if we don't" situation so I understand those who want us to turn pro as it's at least not death by inactivity, but I'll need to see a feasible business model that avoids a continual drain on our finances before i concede it's the way forward. This can't be a "it'll be alright on the night" risky decision where we gamble our future on a big incoming transfer fee or a cup tie at Ibrox or Parkhead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, an86 said: Fantastic to see DC back at the club. On that I absolutely agree! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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