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The Brechin City 2019/20 Thread

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1 minute ago, onecowden said:

As long as it is within the law, you can put whatever you like in a contract. The employers (club) can get it wrong by employing the wrong man. That's not the fault of the employee (manager) so he should be paid his contract. Many things can cause teams to go on a downward spiral - money for recruitment not given, injuries, suspensions, personell in the dressing room not conforming causing unrest. However I will be annoyingly repetetive here and mention employment law dictates severence pay or not. Mind you, if Demonic Raab gets his way that could all end.

Spot on.  It is maybe not as simplistic as I was making out.  

 

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4 minutes ago, MallanandFlanagan said:

Would you be interested in Gary Naysmith? Did well with East Fife and with us up until the last part of last season. He seems like a genuine hard working man

Just got a good job at Hearts as their man in charge of loans  - players not cash !

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It's not football management though. I think he is keen to get back in from what he said after he left us. I genuinely think he will be a successful manager in the future. It is a shame how Brechin have gone into free fall. I hope you stay up and stabilise. Why has this happened to Brechin. My first Queens match back in 1989 or 90 was a nil nil versus Brechin at Palmerston. Remember the challenge Cup final too. I think Dick Campbell was in charge of Brechin then.

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1 hour ago, theoriginalhedge said:

All I am saying is that contracts could and should be drawn up to safeguard clubs as well as the managers.  Football is a results driven industry after all.  

Yes but you wont get many good potential managers willing to sign up to a deal that offers him little or no security.  Again you can use 2 way notice periods as if a manager does well another club might have to buy him out and pay you to release him.  Managers are rarely sacked - rather they are paid what they are due under their contract and club says left by mutual agreement or even better for departing manager he gets the pay off and club says he decided to resign for the good of the club (unspoken is otherwise he would have been sacked with the same pay off!).  In football there is no standard management culture - you don't get quarterly appraisals, performance improvement plans, etc in the same way you do in industry

Edited by Cowden Cowboy

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43 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Yes but you wont get many good potential managers willing to sign up to a deal that offers him little or no security.  Again you can use 2 way notice periods as if a manager does well another club might have to buy him out and pay you to release him.  Managers are rarely sacked - rather they are paid what they are due under their contract and club says left by mutual agreement or even better for departing manager he gets the pay off and club says he decided to resign for the good of the club (unspoken is otherwise he would have been sacked with the same pay off!).  In football there is no standard management culture - you don't get quarterly appraisals, performance improvement plans, etc in the same way you do in industry

This is possibly where the problem lies  and what I have been alluding to from the start.   Most smaller clubs never stand in the way of a successful manager moving on as has been the case with us in our better years.  When things go wrong on the other hand , a lot of managers hang on till the bitter end , unwilling to accept there are problems .  Perhaps performance appraisals might be the way forward. 

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50 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

This is possibly where the problem lies  and what I have been alluding to from the start.   Most smaller clubs never stand in the way of a successful manager moving on as has been the case with us in our better years.  When things go wrong on the other hand , a lot of managers hang on till the bitter end , unwilling to accept there are problems .  Perhaps performance appraisals might be the way forward. 

If contracts were drawn up with appraisals and improvement plans that would make it an extremely slow process. Barry Smith would still be Brechin City manager on an improvement plan. I'm sure that's not what the majority of Brechin fans would like.

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11 hours ago, onecowden said:

If contracts were drawn up with appraisals and improvement plans that would make it an extremely slow process. Barry Smith would still be Brechin City manager on an improvement plan. I'm sure that's not what the majority of Brechin fans would like.

Hmm. I suppose you are right. Just have to stick with the haphazard, fingers crossed , trust me I know what i'm doing system then. 

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Hmm. I suppose you are right. Just have to stick with the haphazard, fingers crossed , trust me I know what i'm doing system then. 

If it was that easy to come up with something that enhances a club's position in these contracts, don't you think clubs would have implemented it long before now? In practical terms contracts in football have evolved to reflect the football market place and in a negotiation few people are going to sign a contract which doesn't have some balance as regards employment protection, remuneration, etc. Often these are short 1 year contracts with no guarantee of continued employment beyond expiry.

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Why would anyone who’s got an unproven track record be entitled to a contract that states compensation will be paid for failing?

Anyone  attempting to move into management usually has to start at the bottom and work his way up if successful, if you want to reward failures, the liquidators aren’t normally far away!

Edited by brechin21

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1 hour ago, brechin21 said:

Why would anyone who’s got an unproven track record be entitled to a contract that states compensation will be paid for failing?

Anyone  attempting to move into management usually has to start at the bottom and work his way up if successful, if you want to reward failures, the liquidators aren’t normally far away!

That approach will get you little or no quality - nobody is paid compensation for failing they are simply paid what they are entitled to - failure though means their employment will cease and they are unlikely to get a new role which is a pretty big downside

Edited by Cowden Cowboy

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So sorry to hear you have appointed Mark Wilson. My thoughts are with you at this difficult time. 

I’ve seen plenty of this but any reasoning to why? I understand he finished 3rd the season he was at Airdrie? Did he just inherit a winning team/is he a fud? What is it?

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On 05/09/2019 at 14:36, MonTheHedge said:


I’ve seen plenty of this but any reasoning to why? I understand he finished 3rd the season he was at Airdrie? Did he just inherit a winning team/is he a fud? What is it?

I've posted my thoughts elsewhere but - 

While Airdrie did finish 3rd the season he was in charge, the heavy caveat is that if Andy Ryan and Iain Russell hadn't scored nearly 50 goals between them we'd have been mid-table/bottom half of the league at best. His team, which were full-time, conceded 66 goals (the worst goals against record in the league that season), got cuffed 5-0 by Stenny, put in a dismal performance at Livingston at Christmas when we were still relatively in with a chance of top spot (if Kevin Schmidt was still running around the Toni Macaroni arena today he still wouldn't have scored) and a series of other pathetic performances including against the Rovers, eventually relegated Queen's Park and the infamous midweek night at Brechin. The luminaries he signed were Kyle Hutton, Jack McKay, Simon Mensing and Jordan McGregor. I'm not sure you could consider any of them even a qualified success. We might have made the play-offs but I don't think anyone was confident of success and so it turned out. 

For me the worst thing about Wilson was that - as you've said - he was a fud and he always had an air of superiority about himself. Like he was bigger and better than Airdrieonians Football Club. That was reflected in comments like "Airdrie fans are difficult to please" after every defeat and his maw/granny/auntie commenting on the Airdrie facebook page with "you're Airdrie what did you expect!!" after we got cuffed by Livingston and after pretty much every defeat when she would always staunchly defend him. His "they didn't like me because I played for Celtic" comment after he left was pathetic. We didn't not like you because you played for Celtic, we didn't like you because you were pish at your job. 

As others have mentioned too, there's the doubt over whether it was really him or Dalziel that was in charge also. 

He seemed like he was done with management once he left us so I am shocked he's taken a job at another SPFL club. Even more shocked that another club would actually offer him a job though.

Of course that doesn't mean he won't be a success at Brechin. Guys like Ryan McCord and Luke Watt are infinitely better than the arse end of League 2. I would be worried though...

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22 hours ago, airdrieman said:

I've posted my thoughts elsewhere but - 

While Airdrie did finish 3rd the season he was in charge, the heavy caveat is that if Andy Ryan and Iain Russell hadn't scored nearly 50 goals between them we'd have been mid-table/bottom half of the league at best. His team, which were full-time, conceded 66 goals (the worst goals against record in the league that season)

Not sure how you can count this against him - was he not managing those two players in particular?  You can't blame him for the team conceding 66 goals and not credit him for the goals the team scored?

22 hours ago, airdrieman said:

We might have made the play-offs but I don't think anyone was confident of success and so it turned out.

You lost to an Alloa side that we somehow fluked our way past in the final.  The same Alloa side got promoted the next season and are still there, doing well for themselves in the Championship. 

22 hours ago, airdrieman said:

For me the worst thing about Wilson was that - as you've said - he was a fud and he always had an air of superiority about himself. Like he was bigger and better than Airdrieonians Football Club. That was reflected in comments like "Airdrie fans are difficult to please" after every defeat and his maw/granny/auntie commenting on the Airdrie facebook page with "you're Airdrie what did you expect!!" after we got cuffed by Livingston and after pretty much every defeat when she would always staunchly defend him. His "they didn't like me because I played for Celtic" comment after he left was pathetic. We didn't not like you because you played for Celtic, we didn't like you because you were pish at your job.

His playing career would suggest he probably is bigger and better than Airdrie.  By the sounds of thing Aidrie fans are pretty hard to please - I wouldn't consider 3rd in the league and losing in the playoffs isn't a bad season for Airdrie.

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Mark Wilson  .........i for one will give him a chance .  Smith should have been away end of last season . Player budget gone  .  Wilson has a job on his hands using the players Smith has singed .  It baffles me when i read in papers Smith goes after 3 games . He had to go we were shite last season and he has had 3 League , 3 friendlies , 4 bet fred , and one Tunnocks cup game . He went after that .....and not 3 games .   Steve Campbell ????? Why ???? New broom should have swept clean but has not .  I rest my case . Roll on Saturday .....

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On 03/09/2019 at 22:28, Cowden Cowboy said:

That approach will get you little or no quality - nobody is paid compensation for failing they are simply paid what they are entitled to - failure though means their employment will cease and they are unlikely to get a new role which is a pretty big downside

As this is usually their second job /part time job come  hobby,  I don't think this is really the hardship you think it is.  Basically their pride will be hurt for a wee while but most of them have a real job to fall back on . 

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1 hour ago, theoriginalhedge said:

As this is usually their second job /part time job come  hobby,  I don't think this is really the hardship you think it is.  Basically their pride will be hurt for a wee while but most of them have a real job to fall back on . 

No many ex-footballers have their football job as their number one earner or priority.  Failure can lead to them having to come out of football and get by in real world!

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11 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

No many ex-footballers have their football job as their number one earner or priority.  Failure can lead to them having to come out of football and get by in real world!

I have not encountered many  managers (or players ) at our level who don't have a main job . Football may be their first priority or obsession  but I wouldn't think it would be their main source of income. 

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On 02/09/2019 at 22:34, theoriginalhedge said:

 Most smaller clubs never stand in the way of a successful manager moving on as has been the case with us in our better years.  When things go wrong on the other hand , a lot of managers hang on till the bitter end , unwilling to accept there are problems . 

Most clubs might not stand in the way but they will expect compensation if it's due. When Gary Naysmith moved from us to QoS, I'm sure the club were happy to let him speak to QoS and came to a reasonable agreement but they still paid us. That's the security the club gets, managers and players get exactly the same security built in to contracts.

And smaller clubs don't torpedo players and manager's opportunities to move on to higher levels out of the kindness of their heart, setting yoruself up as a good place for players to move onto a higher level / FT club / whatever helps in bringing better players in.

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