Learning new languages

[stevieKTID]

40 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

I have a question for anyone who's learning or learned other languages. Do you think in the new language, or do you still think in English?

I sometimes think in Dutch but mostly in English, I've dreamt in Dutch quite a strange feeling.

Edited May 29, 2019 by stevieKTID

[Florentine_Pogen]

Die Toten Hosen are the gods of German language music. Fantastic live act as well.

Jawöhl.....Hier Kommt Alex was a bit of a cockrock anthem back in the day.

[VladimirMooc]

7 hours ago, hk blues said:

Nonsense

I lived in Hong Kong and learned decent Cantonese. Isn’t impossible, unless you’re a Brexit-supporting gammon, IMO. 

[Vic Mackey]

Cunnilingus is worth a bash

[Nutz_the_Squirrel]

Que? 

[Herman Hessian]

helps to have an interest in something which you can follow in the language you are learning; i love Italian football and read all manner of stuff on-line about the game, know the words to Hellas songs - and their translations - and could walk in to the club shop in Verona and ask for 'two adult tickets for Wednesday's game against Sampdoria - top tier of the south stand' before I could manage to organise anything remotely practical; understanding the basic stuff about the game gives you a core that you can work from to expand your vocabulary, and you also get to pick up colloquial phrases rather than just 'properly taught' language, which is great in the long term, and for chatting to people at matches; I used to go to games having resolved to speak Italian for the entire day - buying train tickets, getting food and drink, finding the way to the ground - all that sort of stuff - it was great, because i was interested and engaged in the whole experience rather than learning some irrelevant stuff from a language course or textbook - i couldn't care less how you ask your uncle's friend what colour his new car is or that sort of nonsense - it's all so abstract and dull

I realise that plenty of folk may not have the opportunity to visit the country of the language they are learning and indulge first hand, but - assuming that most on here like football - you can watch games from that country with native commentary, read the on-line previews and match reports in the original format, look at club and fan websites, check out twitter feeds during matches - all that sort of thing; it's good because you learn how the language works as far as the structure goes and you can build on that as you pick up more and more words; hafta say, i also do some evening classes so that i get some proper teaching too - you're only going to get so far being able to shout obscenities at Vicenza fans, order chips with mayonnaise and apologise to stewards...

so - short answer - find yourself a team in the country you're hoping to learn about, and immerse yourself and take an interest in the coverage of them on a regular basis - you'll start to pick things up really quickly, and the more you learn, the more interesting it gets...

[sjc]

Have found my Japanese has started to really come on since upping my lessons to 3 times a week. Long way to go though.

I get what @hk blues is saying though when you live in a bubble when teaching English abroad.

[hk blues]

7 hours ago, VladimirMooc said:

I lived in Hong Kong and learned decent Cantonese. Isn’t impossible, unless you’re a Brexit-supporting gammon, IMO. 

I never said it's impossible, I suggested it was not necessary.  A few words/phrases suffice.  

Congrats on learning decent Cantonese, very few westerners (other than those who have lived there since childhood) can master the pronunciation given the 9 levels of intonation.  

[Florentine_Pogen]

Have found my Japanese has started to really come on since upping my lessons to 3 times a week. Long way to go though.
I get what [mention=65264]hk blues[/mention] is saying though when you live in a bubble when teaching English abroad.

“In The Realm Of The Senses” (complete, in original Japanese, no subtitles) is available on some cultural site called ygerbil or so a friend tells me.......[emoji41]

[hk blues]

1 hour ago, sjc said:

Have found my Japanese has started to really come on since upping my lessons to 3 times a week. Long way to go though.

I get what @hk blues is saying though when you live in a bubble when teaching English abroad.

Yep.

But it's not just that, it's the simple fact that pretty much everyone we have to interact with in our daily life in both Hong Kong and the Philippines can speak English so there is absolutely no need to speak Cantonese/Tagalog - the basic phrases suffice to be polite.  I can understand why you'd need to learn Japanese as English is not widely spoken there so life would become impossible with no Japanese.

[sjc]

31 minutes ago, Florentine_Pogen said:

“In The Realm Of The Senses” (complete, in original Japanese, no subtitles) is available on some cultural site called ygerbil or so a friend tells me.......

That'll come in handy if the wife ever tries to asphyxiates me then cut my bollocks off......

[atfccfc]

18 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

I have a question for anyone who's learning or learned other languages. Do you think in the new language, or do you still think in English?

I have a very good knowledge of Italian. I went to university in Bologna. I initially took it up at school but it took me a while to really get a real understanding. It was only when I went to live in Italy that I really improved. Before i would try and translate in my head which is hard and slow. When I use Italian I can switch very easily now and don't have to think about it.  I also work in a museum so I use it most days 

So yes. When using Italian I think only in Italian.

Edited May 30, 2019 by atfccfc
Adding to comment

[Guest JTS98]

My Polish is good and my German is decent. Currently learning Malay and it seems pretty straight-forward so far. I'd like to learn Italian and may make a move on that soon.

Basically, you need motivation, time, and somebody to speak to in that language.

I find Anki really helpful for vocabulary. You need to be disciplined and do it as close to every day as you can, but it's really helpful.

There's no harm in a good grammar book, but I don't obsess about that. I've used Michel Thomas stuff, I've used youtube videos, I use Anki, I read newspapers and listen to radio in the target language etc. When I first moved to Poland I found the weather forecast one of the most helpful things on tv.

So, I'd recommend using as wide a range of materials as you can. Don't rely on one thing. Classes can be fun. I've found them fun and found them a waste of time. It's sociable if nothing else. But you need motivation, time, and somebody to talk to.

It's great fun.

[German Jag]

Have either lived in Germany or worked overseas for a German company for coming up for 30 years.

Apart from eins, zwei, drei, ein Bier bitte etc. couldn't speak the language at all when I first relocated. The 1st company I worked for paid for some 1 on 1 Inlingua lessons. Thereafter was just immersion and the fact that it was a requirement to be able to communicate at work that continued the learning process.

Once you reach the point where you think / dream in the language then things become much easier.

Had to complete a language test as part of my application for German citizenship, ended up getting 96%.

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

I wanna learn Spanish. Just because I can. However I dont know anyone Spanish.

I learnt all my Spanish from Speedy Gonzales cartoons. I'm practically fluent.

 

[WullieBroonIsGod]

I did German in school, up to higher level, but that was 20 years ago now.

Was in Berlin last year and tried to be as polite as I could, but found I just couldn't understand a word when spoken back to me.  I'm back again next week and will endeavour to order food and drinks in my awful rusty Deutsch once again.

It's something I wish I had actually stuck with, though at the time I was glad to get rid.  It's only now looking back I see it as an absolute opportunity missed.  Company I work for has an office in the Netherlands and employs people from all over Europe  in customer service roles.  Some of those guys are fluent in 4+ languages, and I am beyond impressed with them.  I might actually look out some of the apps mentioned on here and maybe try and dredge up some of the old vocab.  Find some time and see how it goes.

[Herman Hessian]

35 minutes ago, WullieBroonIsGod said:

Some of those guys are fluent in 4+ languages

much easier to be sticking with the old English standby of just shouting (in English) at foreign sorts, but addressing them as Manuel, Fritz, Froggy or Luigi to ensure that they know you are making a sterling effort to speak to them in their own language ?

chuck in Sven, Ivan and Bogdan to cover all of Scandinavia and Eastern Europe and - hey presto - you can suddenly converse in around a dozen different tongues (leave it...); all women, of any nationality are just called 'love' - no need to complicate matters further with specific names there...

[Guest JTS98]

1 hour ago, WullieBroonIsGod said:

Some of those guys are fluent in 4+ languages

That's the thing. In many parts of Europe, indeed many parts of the world, multi-lingualism is the norm, not the exception like it is in Britain.

I don't think British people deserve the slagging some people give us for this, however. It's simply a quirk of history and geography that for the vast majority of British people there is very little need to learn a foreign language. My Polish friends used to get quite high and mighty about how they could (often) speak English and German to a high standard, occasionally Russian too, while most Brits they knew didn't have a strong foreign language. But this isn't comparing apples with apples. If a Pole wants to move abroad (or get a good job with many international companies), they need to learn a foreign language since Polish is hardly well-known beyond their borders. Their options are pretty simple. Germany is next door and English works for you worldwide. So from a young age they make a choice and get stuck in.

Where exactly should a British kid start with foreign languages? How are you supposed to know which one to learn when you're relatively young? French? Why? Spanish? Why? German? Why? I moved to Poland at 22 and had no idea I'd ever live there until about six months before that. I learned once I got there, but obviously was miles behind my Polish mates' levels of English; they'd been learning since they were kids.

The good news here is that the levels of multi-lingualism elsewhere show that learning a language isn't exactly rocket science. Time, motivation, opportunity.

Edited May 31, 2019 by JTS98

[101]

I think everyone in the UK should learn their native tounge, Scots, Welsh and Gaelic etc. And Spanish as it's the most common 'second' language should should get you by all over the place. I agree learning French was the only thing I was taught as secondary school I have really needed I wish I had tried harder

[Guest JTS98]

5 minutes ago, Adam101 said:

I think everyone in the UK should learn their native tounge, Scots, Welsh and Gaelic etc. And Spanish as it's the most common 'second' language should should get you by all over the place. I agree learning French was the only thing I was taught as secondary school I have really needed I wish I had tried harder

It doesn't though.

Of no use in most of Europe and of no use in the vast majority of the rest of the world outside the Americas. It's only spoken in small pockets of Africa and Asia.

This is the difficulty for English speakers. There isn't another language that is a safe bet the way English is in terms of use.

I've used German as a fall back when required in eastern Europe. I've used Polish as a fall back in other Slavic-language countries. But neither of these languages travel much further than that. Spanish doesn't really travel outwith its base countries either. It has a lot of base countries, but they're quite geographically concentrated. Someone learning Spanish at school then moving to central Europe or Asia isn't going to find it much use.