Dundee United 2019/2020

[invergowrie arab]

12 hours ago, stumigoo said:

We don't really know what the next few months will hold, and how football will look next season. Neilson mentioned yesterday that we are in a reasonable position because everyone is under contract 

Jesus

[RandomGuy.]

24 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

Butcher was good enough for the top flight when he played at that level 6 years ago and he's improved significantly since then. Maybe the top flight has improved to a similar degree since we got relegated but I doubt it. The likes of Shaun Rooney and Brian Graham have managed to get gigs in the Premiership,  ffs, and they are absolutely shite.

Shaun Rooney hasn't played in the Premiership, and Brian Graham is playing for a team who just got relegated to League One, m8.

Its alright having one or two dross players, but you look to have a starting eleven of them. I'd argue Shankland is the only one likely to thrive. Liam Smith maybe, but we played Ayr when we were out of form this (last?) season and walked over them at half pace, so it doesn't bode well.

[Twinkle]

We don't really know what the next few months will hold, and how football will look next season. Neilson mentioned yesterday that we are in a reasonable position because everyone is under contract over the summer (apart from Bingham and Watson) so we are at least in a fairly settled position. Thankfully we won't be having to do a complete rebuild at a time like this (although ideally we do need 4 or 5 new signings).

I know we have just won the league but is there a precedent for sacking a championship winning manager?

Cheers Robbie but the whole 'leaving your house to drink with big Tony' was highly irresponsible so we are gonna have to let you go despite the league winning thing

Might work

[Pull My Strings]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

Shaun Rooney hasn't played in the Premiership, and Brian Graham is playing for a team who just got relegated to League One, m8.

That's fascinating but doesn't in any way qualify the point I made: Graham played in the Premiership last season and Rooney has just been signed up to play there next season. Both are absolutely shite and neither would get a game for United. Whilst our opponents are looking at players of that quality we shouldn't be too far off the pace.

[RandomGuy.]

6 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

That's fascinating but doesn't in any way qualify the point I made: Graham played in the Premiership last season and Rooney has just been signed up to play there next season. Both are absolutely shite and neither would get a game for United. Whilst our opponents are looking at players of that quality we shouldn't be too far off the pace.

Graham played in the Premiership and was bombed out, which is my point.

Rooney I've no idea about, but again, hes joining a side who finished 7th, so they might get away with a fleck of shite in the line up.

I just look through your regular line up and don't see much quality. Obvious place is CB, where Reynolds, Watson and Connolly all look absolutely awful.

If it was just one of them then fine, but its not, and thats repeated throughout the squad.

[Pull My Strings]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

Graham played in the Premiership and was bombed out, which is my point.

Rooney I've no idea about, but again, hes joining a side who finished 7th, so they might get away with a fleck of shite in the line up.

I just look through your regular line up and don't see much quality. Obvious place is CB, where Reynolds, Watson and Connolly all look absolutely awful.

If it was just one of them then fine, but its not, and thats repeated throughout the squad.

Are you forgetting the time that Graham spent in the Premiership with United and Saints (where I believe he was one of your best players). This notion that the Premiership is chock full of good players is just bollocks. You, of all people, should be aware of that.

[Mark Connolly]

49 minutes ago, Speroni*1 said:

Is Butcher a top 6 style hatchet man? Nope. But he'll not be massively out of place in the Prem.

The concern for me (And it's a good concern to have!) is that if he's one of our best players (Aside from the obvious) then there's a massive amount of work to be done. Without Shankland or a suitable replacement (Nisbet) I'd see United coming straight back down. With Shankland or a suitable replacement, United would just about survive.

If top 6 is the aim, then major surgery is required. If consolidating in the top flight is the aim then a minimum of 2-3 players in is required AND a suitable replacement for Shankland if he goes.

That's standard though - I've yet to see a club go up and not strengthen. I'm not gonna get into a slagging match with United fans about how much you spend and how viable that is or whatever, but if the amounts you are willing to throw about are true (Courier saying a £350,000 bid - going up to £500,000 for Kevin Nisbet was made in Jan) then there's absolutely no reason why Robbie Neilson won't have United fighting at the right end of the table whenever next season starts.

If you're fighting a relegation battle then something has went wrong along the way IMO. At a total guess, I'd have United finishing in the 7-9th range if the world was a normal place right now and things were ticking along as one would expect.

 

Welcome to the dayglo, Ludo.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, Pull My Strings said:

Are you forgetting the time that Graham spent in the Premiership with United and Saints (where I believe he was one of your best players). This notion that the Premiership is chock full of good players is just bollocks. You, of all people, should be aware of that.

Brian Graham came into a squad that had just won the Scottish Cup. He wasn't "one of our best players", which is why he was never re-signed and ended up at County, and I think he scored about 7 goals all season. His success was entirely down to the fact that Saints side kept clean sheets for fun. Thats my point, poor players are fine in high quality squads.

Good sides can have one or two bad players.

I'm saying your current side, when your fans are talking about top six, has only one or two quality players at that level.

I don't see any of your centre backs being near that level (Reynolds, Watson, Connolly), so you'd need two players there. LB options of Robson or Sporle the same.

If you want Butcher you'd need another player in there, preferably one who can control a game for you. Wide options of Pawlett, McMullan and Appere look laughably poor aswell. Clark regularly fails to take the step up.

Your keeper, Smith and Shankland seem the only ones who have the clear chance of being top half quality, yet all three are completely unproven and have zero experience at that level.

[Pull My Strings]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Brian Graham came into a squad that had just won the Scottish Cup. He wasn't "one of our best players", which is why he was never re-signed and ended up at County, and I think he scored about 7 goals all season. His success was entirely down to the fact that Saints side kept clean sheets for fun. Thats my point, poor players are fine in high quality squads.

Good sides can have one or two bad players.

 

According to wiki, Graham scored 9 goals in 24 games. Without checking that probably makes him the most prolific striker in Saints' entire history. He didn't "re-sign" of course because he was only on loan to Saints from United because he couldn't get in our team.

The point, which you keep trying to bury underneath screeds of irrelevant waffle, is that very, very average (even shite) players do absolutely fine in the Premiership, irrespective of whether you personally rate them.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, Pull My Strings said:

According to wiki, Graham scored 9 goals in 24 games. Without checking that probably makes him the most prolific striker in Saints' entire history. He didn't "re-sign" of course because he was only on loan to Saints from United because he couldn't get in our team.

Stevie May probably scored more against United alone the previous season.

He was also out of contract and free to move the Summer after his "prolific" season, which included about 4 penalties. Yet he ended up 3rd choice striker at County while Saints returned to Steven MacLean, who scored about 15 in the same team.

Brian Graham only ended up at us, fwiw, because the board utterly fucked up that Summer and spent their entire time trying to negotiate deals for May instead of signing a replacement. MacLeans injury meant Grahams only competition to start was Adam Morgan.

Regardless. Brian Graham was shite. Brian Graham played a part in a top half season because he was playing beside 10 players of top six quality.

United do not have 10 players of top six quality, so cant afford a player as shite as Brian Graham. Nicky Clark is worse than Brian Graham.

[Pull My Strings]

7 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Stevie May probably scored more against United alone the previous season.

He was also out of contract and free to move the Summer after his "prolific" season, which included about 4 penalties. Yet he ended up 3rd choice striker at County while Saints returned to Steven MacLean, who scored about 15 in the same team.

Brian Graham only ended up at us, fwiw, because the board utterly fucked up that Summer and spent their entire time trying to negotiate deals for May instead of signing a replacement. MacLeans injury meant Grahams only competition to start was Adam Morgan.

Regardless. Brian Graham was shite. Brian Graham played a part in a top half season because he was playing beside 10 players of top six quality.

United do not have 10 players of top six quality, so cant afford a player as shite as Brian Graham. Nicky Clark is worse than Brian Graham.

Jesus, I don't even know where to start with all that shite. I'll do you a precis (in order): nope; don't care; don't care; don't be silly; lol wut.

Count yourself lucky.

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

Jesus, I don't even know where to start with all that shite. I'll do you a precis (in order): nope; don't care; don't care; don't be silly; lol wut.

Count yourself lucky.

At least you never tried to argue the majority of your squad isn't up to it, I suppose.

[Granny Danger]

I reckon Butcher will manage to compete in the Premiership and will be a key player for us.  NickyClark too as long as he is utilised properly.  That said there are many in the squad who will struggle badly.

I also think Neilson will be found out early on.

 

[Pull My Strings]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

At least you never tried to argue the majority of your squad isn't up to it, I suppose.

No, well spotted. My point is that most of the rest of the Premiership is also shite. Nae point arguing Connolly would get roasted by a good centre forward when there are teams who employed the likes of Brian Graham last season; or that Paul McMullan will struggle against a decent full back when he'll come up against the likes of Shaun Rooney.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

No, well spotted. My point is that most of the rest of the Premiership is also shite. Nae point arguing Connolly would get roasted by a good centre forward when there are teams who employed the likes of Brian Graham last season; or that Paul McMullan will struggle against a decent full back when he'll come up against the likes of Shaun Rooney.

Aye, but I was debating the chat of top six, which will involve you having to win games at Pittodrie, while taking points off the likes of Rangers and Motherwell.

Your current squad doesnt look good enough to do that, for me. You cant play those teams with more than one, maybe two, shite players.

[Pull My Strings]

6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Aye, but I was debating the chat of top six, which will involve you having to win games at Pittodrie, while taking points off the likes of Rangers and Motherwell.

Your current squad doesnt look good enough to do that, for me. You cant play those teams with more than one, maybe two, shite players.

Aye, we obviously need to improve significantly if we're to challenge for the top six. That goes without saying. 

[Loemba90]

Brian Graham is better than Nicky Clark?  F’kin mental.

[mishtergrolsch]

Anyone that thinks we're going to be anywhere near top 6 without 7 or 8 new signings to improve the first team is mental.

Our defence is garbage, our midfield is toothless, our main winger Mcmullan cant cross and we're mostly going to be up against teams that are fitter, stronger and far more street wise than anything we are used to.

And we have a manger that squeezes Peter Pawlett in at every opportunity, thinks Dillon Powers is a player and thought Adam King was worth a 3 year deal.

This squad, even with Shankland is 10th at best considering the amount of touches Shankland actually gets in a game. We wont get away with shitfesting as many games as last season and hoping the golden one will snatch the points at the other end.

Edited April 18, 2020 by mishtergrolsch

[PartyFears2]

I’d bite your arm off for 9th / 10th next season. 
 

the rebuilding of Dundee United is only really starting. 
 

Anything above this is obviously a very welcome bonus 

[arab_joe]

On 16/04/2020 at 20:04, Tap in 94 said:

What are we needing for next season then guys?

We need Craig Levein to come back in with his scouting network from circa 2008, so that we can sign the next Monk, Webster, Gomis, Buaben, Conway and Sandaza.

On 17/04/2020 at 17:53, mishtergrolsch said:

For next season imo we need a centre half, two full backs, a creative midfielder, two wingers and a striker.

From our current squad, these are the only guys that I think we can rely on to perform in the Premiership: Benji, Smith, Robson, Butcher, Appere, Clark and Shankland.  Oddly, if totally fit, then I think Pawlett may be useful off the bench - but that is a sizeable "if" - McMullan and Harkes may also be good impact players but too often go missing.  At least a few issues with that: that is only 7 players to rely upon; Butcher will be suspended every few weeks; and there is no way that Neilson will be lining up with all of Appere, Clark and Shankland in the same team...

I assume that Watson, Bingham and Sow will be let go in June, and I do not really rate Reynolds (can't run), Connolly (can't keep calm) or Powers (can't pass).  I haven't seen enough of Sporle, Freeman, Glass, Chalmers, Mochrie, Neilson etc. to judge whether they will even be useful squad players.

17 hours ago, ArabAuslander said:

I reckon we're probably 3 players short of a Top 6 side. 

I love your positivity, but I think we would need 3 Shankland level players to get us into the top 6.

7 hours ago, PartyFears2 said:

I’d bite your arm off for 9th / 10th next season. 

Agreed.  Some of our results this season have covered up pretty terrible performances - if we can finish above the play-off place with our current squad then we will have done incredibly well. 

For what (very little) it is worth, I would far rather that we finished 10th with a level of sustainability, than we spend hundreds of thousands to finish 6th...