Sir Peh McBridie Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Master plan clearly promotion and then sell Shankland. Risky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Arab 83 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arab_joe Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 19 hours ago, Adam101 said: 133% is a seriously worrying figure, I get he's doing nothing wrong but this is the kind of level the SPFL shouldn't allow... I totally agree. 133% is a ridiculous ratio and shouldn't be allowed in any league; we are setting ourselves up for a massive fall if we don't get out up this season. Makes the contract extensions for Neilson et al even more bizarre. Also, how the hell are we managing to spend £80,000 a week on players/staff wages in the Championship! 19 hours ago, ArabianKnight said: It's not a sustainable position, promotion needed desperately this yesr Even if we do get promoted this season, the "spend your way out" philosophy is a really short-term, dangerous one. Shankland's sale proceeds will go towards the debt and we will be left with Nicky Clark and Louis Appere up top against the Old Firm... 18 hours ago, Adam101 said: The most baffling thing is to spend that money on good players but then reward the manager for not achieving anything with the group yet and in fact now the expenditure is clear I don't think it's much of a reach to say he's currently unsuccessful with this group. I don't think you'll find many Arabs that disagree with that - the renewal of the coaching staff contracts was an odd move at a strange time. Success will be seen on the final day - if we go up then Neilson has succeeded; if we don't then he hasn't (and he will be paid off and we will hire another manager and that new manager will release a load of Neilson's signings and then bring in his own duds, and this joyous Championship ride will start all over again...). 18 hours ago, ArabianKnight said: Afaik they are setting the club up so there's additional revenue streams coming in outside of football. I.e the bar/social club that will be situated across the road. And they've bought back/leased back other assets which will bring in more money. On top of that all merchandising has been brought back in house too. We will have to have the busiest most profitable bar/social club in history if it is going to cover even one player's wages! In all seriousness, it is great to get the infrastructreu of the club improved, but if we are playing Championship football with these outlays then it is all completely immaterial. 18 hours ago, Granny Danger said: Overspending to win promotion is a laudable strategy. So long as it’s successful. Is it? 18 hours ago, Adam101 said: Prize money, attendance and sponsorship is the way to spin big amounts of money and when the guy bought the club he said he wanted to make a profit, well these 2 years are ruled out so that's £8 million in the red that he needs to recoup, it's a dangerous game and like you say hopefully the club don't get their fingers burnt. Ogren said at the time he bought the club that he had (a) done his due diligence; and (b) that DUFC could be a great investment that he could profit from. I pointed out then that both of these statements could not simultaneously be true. And having recently watched the Sunderland til I die docuseries on Netflix; let's just hope that our American ownership do not have the same change of heart that Ellis Short did... 15 hours ago, Yenitit said: Heard Fraser Wishart (head of the players union) hinting on the radio that the debts are getting covered by loans taken in the club’s name and not the owner’s. Shame. Worst case scenario the club just defaults on all of its loans, sacks its useless players and staff, enters administration, and pays off 6p in the pound... Anyways, good win yesterday against Dunfermline. Clark's free-kick was a beauty, and good to get a first clean sheet in what feels like months. Coupled with Ayr and Inverness losing, not a bad weekend on the pitch! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, arab_joe said: I totally agree. 133% is a ridiculous ratio and shouldn't be allowed in any league; we are setting ourselves up for a massive fall if we don't get out up this season. Makes the contract extensions for Neilson et al even more bizarre. Also, how the hell are we managing to spend £80,000 a week on players/staff wages in the Championship! Even if we do get promoted this season, the "spend your way out" philosophy is a really short-term, dangerous one. Shankland's sale proceeds will go towards the debt and we will be left with Nicky Clark and Louis Appere up top against the Old Firm... I don't think you'll find many Arabs that disagree with that - the renewal of the coaching staff contracts was an odd move at a strange time. Success will be seen on the final day - if we go up then Neilson has succeeded; if we don't then he hasn't (and he will be paid off and we will hire another manager and that new manager will release a load of Neilson's signings and then bring in his own duds, and this joyous Championship ride will start all over again...). We will have to have the busiest most profitable bar/social club in history if it is going to cover even one player's wages! In all seriousness, it is great to get the infrastructreu of the club improved, but if we are playing Championship football with these outlays then it is all completely immaterial. Is it? Ogren said at the time he bought the club that he had (a) done his due diligence; and (b) that DUFC could be a great investment that he could profit from. I pointed out then that both of these statements could not simultaneously be true. And having recently watched the Sunderland til I die docuseries on Netflix; let's just hope that our American ownership do not have the same change of heart that Ellis Short did... Worst case scenario the club just defaults on all of its loans, sacks its useless players and staff, enters administration, and pays off 6p in the pound... Anyways, good win yesterday against Dunfermline. Clark's free-kick was a beauty, and good to get a first clean sheet in what feels like months. Coupled with Ayr and Inverness losing, not a bad weekend on the pitch! I would argue that you're setting yourself up for a massive fall if you don't get quite far into Europe in season 20/21. If you have to chuck £4m+ at the championship to compete then what on earth is Neilson going to need to fling at the premiership? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 22 hours ago, ArabianKnight said: Afaik they are setting the club up so there's additional revenue streams coming in outside of football. I.e the bar/social club that will be situated across the road. And they've bought back/leased back other assets which will bring in more money. On top of that all merchandising has been brought back in house too. Season tickets seen a rise this year as well. But aye in the short term its playing a dangerous game, hopefully not one that sees us get screwed over. 2 hours ago, arab_joe said: Worst case scenario the club just defaults on all of its loans, sacks its useless players and staff, enters administration, and pays off 6p in the pound... Administration really isn't worst case scenario at all if you're a Utd fan though, is it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, Dee Man said: Administration really isn't worst case scenario at all if you're a Utd fan though, is it? I cannot decide which one to buy you for Christmas. I’ll probably give you the finger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Just now, Granny Danger said: I cannot decide which one to buy you for Christmas. I’ll probably give you the finger. Pervert. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Peh McBridie Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Not one of the cool kids if you haven't survived an admin anyway.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Not one of the cool kids if you haven't survived an admin anyway.. Don't want to be one of the extremely uncool kids that didn't survive an admin too though.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 I still dont understand where any supposed future profit comes in. Not at these levels. There was a small window of opportunity to do well when Rangers died. We will be fully back to early 00s level of spending from the Old Firm soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Didn't Ogren or Asghar pretty openly say the model is based on developing and selling talented young players? A solid plan, bar one minor missing ingredient. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarto Mutiny Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 52 minutes ago, Zetterlund said: Didn't Ogren or Asghar pretty openly say the model is based on developing and selling talented young players? A solid plan, bar one minor missing ingredient. Indeed. It reminds me of the Blackadder line about the build up to the First World War: "There was a tiny flaw in the plan" "What was that?" "It was bollocks" 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabianKnight Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Banks, Glass, Appere and Mochrie. Mochrie will bring in a similar fee to Gauld in a couple of years. Bookmark away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannadeechee Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) I'm suprised at the level of angst here. Now I'm not sticking my head in the sand and I am concerned that they haven't done their sums properly, but that article is full of half truths and innuendo. Mark Ogren stated at the 1st Q&A that the accounts when released would look bad. He asked that "please do not be alarmed". The current board were spending money on Stadium repairs & general maintenance that jad been neglected for years. Fully refurbishing the hospitality areas that again were tired and badly needing done. Infrastructure for new ticketing and card payments. Background work for merchandising back in house. Investment to attain elite status as per SFA youth academy requirements. So as long as the Ogren's are telling the truth then these were mostly one offs & therefore any ongoing maintenance should be at a far lower level. The article also mentions who we brought in 11 players in January, failing to tell the full story that we also let go almost the same amount of 1st team squad players go in summer. Shankland's wages get a mention, saying we are paying similar to McInnes. Even if that were true he has already done more in 3 ½ months that McInnes did in his whole time here! The club have stated at least 3 times that Shankland is not the highest paid player at the club & Asghar also stated in one interview how refreshing it was that Shankland wasn't focused on money but finding somewhere he felt he could play and develop at. So I would doubt that he is on anything like McInnes' wage. If he is then it is rampant stupidity & begs the question who the hell is paid more! Now again not saying its all rosy in the garden, but the results were predicted as exactly this 6 months ago to anyone who would listen. Mark Ogren was at the match yesterday, would be good if there was some official comment from him or club to answer some points, put right the blind speculation in that article and say what the project 2019/2020 outcome would be considering the benefits of promotion wouldn't be included in those. Edited October 28, 2019 by Tannadeechee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumigoo Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 I'm assuming Ogren will be here for the AGM, which I think is this week. I am also assuming that he will have plenty of answers and that the club will release some information, either as part of the AGM, or as a response to the article. I am not worrying, yet, however if we fail to gain promotion then I will be pretty anxious about the plans beyond this season. Making money isn't something that Scottish football does well but most top-flight clubs do report stable finances and most seem to be spending within their means. I would hope that promotion would allow us to reach a position that does mean we are on a better path financially. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Dee Man said: Administration really isn't worst case scenario at all if you're a Utd fan though, is it? If we started selling knee pads for fans in the JK, we could make a fortune. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 8 hours ago, Zetterlund said: Didn't Ogren or Asghar pretty openly say the model is based on developing and selling talented young players? A solid plan, bar one minor missing ingredient. Is that genuinely their main plan to try and swallow ths absolutely mammoth wage bill you're apparently paying out? If it is you should be hugely worried, as theres not a single chance that's ever happening to the level you'll need it to. None. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 47 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Is that genuinely their main plan to try and swallow ths absolutely mammoth wage bill you're apparently paying out? If it is you should be hugely worried, as theres not a single chance that's ever happening to the level you'll need it to. None. The tried and trusted Bonetti and the Marrs business model. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: Is that genuinely their main plan to try and swallow ths absolutely mammoth wage bill you're apparently paying out? If it is you should be hugely worried, as theres not a single chance that's ever happening to the level you'll need it to. None. Please for the love of God no one argue otherwise. If we all hide behind the sofa and turn the lights off he will head next door instead. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 8 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: Please for the love of God no one argue otherwise. If we all hide behind the sofa and turn the lights off he will head next door instead. He's not welcome next door either. Thank you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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