Derry Alli Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Lay aff the Rioja for a bit ffs. You're getting really needy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accent-Unknown Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: I will apologise in advance for being repetitious. First game, Pawlett unavailable, we go 4-4-2 and roll over ICT. Next game, Pawlett back, we squeak past Partick and Pawlett scores so Neilson feels justified in his obsession with him. Beyond that we set out a formation that justifies Pawlett’s inclusion even though that is not the formation we should be playing. We cannot play an effective 4-4-2 with Pawlett in the team so the choice is drop Pawlett or go 4-2-3-1. It’s a no-brainier for everyone bar Neilson. Gonna use this discussion as an excuse to plug an article I wrote for PureFitbaw back before the Dundee Derby: https://purefitbaw.com/2019/08/28/why-nicky-clark-is-a-left-winger-now/ The reality is, we looked far far better with Clark and Appere running into different channels and switching positions than we do now. slight correction though for you GD, Pawlett only come on as a sub when it was 1-1, He didn't start as he had just come back from injury. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arab_joe Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 15 hours ago, ArabianKnight said: Aye we've got good players and a decent manager but as others have pointed out we need a plan B for stuffy teams lining up against us. I find it strange that Arabs keep saying we don't have a Plan B - we are winning games on a more consistent level than we have in a long, long time (in 2019 so far, by my calculations we are (league only) sitting at 17 wins; 5 draws; 5 losses), which would suggest we are managing games fine... 15 hours ago, Granny Danger said: I’m more concerned that the plan A we had in the first league game, and which was very successful, was binned for no logical reason. I know that my post is never going to change your mind, but... Neilson changed things up after that first day and has since won 4 of 5. Personally I'd take that over losing games playing beautiful football. 14 hours ago, adamntg said: I believe Neilson will get United promoted provided he isn't hounded out by the supporters who are, as you say, a strange lot. The more I read, the more I agree... 9 hours ago, mishtergrolsch said: This is the key factor that is splitting fans imo. Some will tolerate eye bleedingly bad football and some won't. I have found the vast majority of Neilsons time here awful to watch. Yes, points win prizes but it's not entertaining. The way he set up against Arbroath was unbelievable. 1 striker at home to a part time team who were in the league below us last season. (No disrespect intended to Arbroath who could argue they were worth a point at the very least) If we get promoted would anyone expect Celtic to play slowly across the back and play1 isolated forward against us next season at Celtic Park? They probably could do and still beat us 8-0 anyway but you get the point. Only Dundee United fans could look upon this season with negativity! We have moaned for years (at least since GMS and Armstrong were sold by McNamara and the slide began) that we: are a sinking ship; were relegated by Dundee; can't gain promotion; and yet... continue to moan when we are top of the league because the wins aren't pretty enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 52 minutes ago, arab_joe said: I find it strange that Arabs keep saying we don't have a Plan B - we are winning games on a more consistent level than we have in a long, long time (in 2019 so far, by my calculations we are (league only) sitting at 17 wins; 5 draws; 5 losses), which would suggest we are managing games fine... I know that my post is never going to change your mind, but... Neilson changed things up after that first day and has since won 4 of 5. Personally I'd take that over losing games playing beautiful football. The more I read, the more I agree... Only Dundee United fans could look upon this season with negativity! We have moaned for years (at least since GMS and Armstrong were sold by McNamara and the slide began) that we: are a sinking ship; were relegated by Dundee; can't gain promotion; and yet... continue to moan when we are top of the league because the wins aren't pretty enough. Generally speaking, a team that plays positive football will gain more points over the long run than a team that plays negative football. More specifically, a team with players like Shankland, Mcmullan, Pawlett, Harkes, Cammy Smith and Mark Reynolds shouldn't be set up to sit back against part time or even full time championship teams. Especially at home. The manager has already proven that himself this season strangely enough. I guess some people don't seem to think fans should want to be entertained for paying into a football game. The odd shite game or two are fine but I'd honestly say over two thirds of the games under Neilson have been poor to watch. Crap games lead to crap atmospheres which are all too regular these days. Theres nothing to get excited about watching Benji pass to Butcher pass to Reynolds pass to Harkes pass to Butcher pass to Robson pass to Reynolds pass to Stanton pass to Benji pass to Butcher then FUCKING HOOF! to Shankland who's fallen into a boredom induced coma. Throw in some of the worst performances and results seen in the club's history and you should understand why fans get pissed off quicker now than ever! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 I don't think going to a football match to be entertained makes any group of supporters a 'strange lot'. Attending simply expecting to see a win would make that group akin to fans of the two teams at the top of the SPFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arab_joe Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 hours ago, mishtergrolsch said: Theres nothing to get excited about watching Benji pass to Butcher pass to Reynolds pass to Harkes pass to Butcher pass to Robson pass to Reynolds pass to Stanton pass to Benji pass to Butcher then FUCKING HOOF! to Shankland who's fallen into a boredom induced coma. Throw in some of the worst performances and results seen in the club's history and you should understand why fans get pissed off quicker now than ever! There is something to get excited about - the fact that DUFC are winning games at a better rate than we have in years. If, as you suggest, all we did was FUCKING HOOF! then we would have been found out long ago - the simple fact is that we do not and have not. Also, "some of the worst performances and results seen in the club's history" - this is exactly the sort of hyperbole and over-reaction I have been referring to. If you think sitting top of The Championship is as bad as it gets then you clearly haven't followed United for long enough!! 38 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said: Attending simply expecting to see a win would make that group akin to fans of the two teams at the top of the SPFL. Nobody expects to win games, but some fans want United back into the Premiership even if that means winning ugly. If you would rather watch us lose games but play silky football, then that's absolutely your right, but expect to be called mad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 45 minutes ago, arab_joe said: 1 hour ago, Dundee Hibernian said: Attending simply expecting to see a win would make that group akin to fans of the two teams at the top of the SPFL. Nobody expects to win games, but some fans want United back into the Premiership even if that means winning ugly. If you would rather watch us lose games but play silky football, then that's absolutely your right, but expect to be called mad. Where have I said I'd rather watch us lose games? In fact, the opposite is the case, as stated in my previous post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) Your Agent McIntyre is prolific. Screwed us up bad and now he is going after Ayr. Clever I'll give you that. Edited September 24, 2019 by Crawford 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 A group of supporters are happy with Neilson's contribution this season, while that same group views those finding fault with tactics as being unreasonable, 'mad' to an extent. Would that be a reasonable summation. Dissatisfaction stems from the frustration at what some fans see as ranging between stubbornness and stupidity on Neilson's part. He has been well backed by the owners allowing him to bring in players, yet still displays flaws similar to predecessors in that he utilises a system which does not suit the players he himself has chosen. On the other hand, to seek out another manager at this point would be folly, on two counts. Firstly, he has got the club on target in terms of winning points. And there are no other managers at our level, and very few in the league above, who I think would be guaranteed to do a better job, presently. So we are all stuck with each other, the manager and the fans who differ in their views of Neilson. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppola Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Can see both sides of this one. Neilson definitely got it wrong on Saturday, Appere struggled on the wing and Pawlett was stinking in his supposedly favoured position. We also missed McMullan running at defenders and giving them something to think about (got told he was left out due to illness) and as plenty have rightly said, changing something that seemed to be working to go back to something that so often hasn't for us seems a bit mental. Still, 3 wins out of 3 at home while scoring 12 goals and 5 out of 6 altogether and I'm inclined to forgive one poor afternoon. Team selection and tactics definitely going to be under scrutiny the next few weeks though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arab_joe Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Dundee Hibernian said: A group of supporters are happy with Neilson's contribution this season, while that same group views those finding fault with tactics as being unreasonable, 'mad' to an extent. Would that be a reasonable summation. A reasonable summation would be that some supporters are moaning when we are coming off our best run in years. 45 minutes ago, coppola said: Can see both sides of this one. Neilson definitely got it wrong on Saturday, Appere struggled on the wing and Pawlett was stinking in his supposedly favoured position. We also missed McMullan running at defenders and giving them something to think about (got told he was left out due to illness) and as plenty have rightly said, changing something that seemed to be working to go back to something that so often hasn't for us seems a bit mental. McMullan's introduction changed the game. A masterstroke from Neilson. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Tamson Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Do not give one jot how we do it,we just need to do it! Just get out of this bloody league.Please. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 hours ago, arab_joe said: There is something to get excited about - the fact that DUFC are winning games at a better rate than we have in years. If, as you suggest, all we did was FUCKING HOOF! then we would have been found out long ago - the simple fact is that we do not and have not. Also, "some of the worst performances and results seen in the club's history" - this is exactly the sort of hyperbole and over-reaction I have been referring to. If you think sitting top of The Championship is as bad as it gets then you clearly haven't followed United for long enough!! Nobody expects to win games, but some fans want United back into the Premiership even if that means winning ugly. If you would rather watch us lose games but play silky football, then that's absolutely your right, but expect to be called mad. I've been following United for over 30 years. I've seen some dire stuff. The last two season in particular. When Neilson sets his team up like he did on Saturday, which was the norm last season too, and seems to be his go to system, Its crap. When he sets up with two up front, like the Dundee game, we scored 6. They were so worried about Shankland everyone else had tons of space. On results, 0-5 loss to Ayr at home under Neilson is one of the worst I've seen. There were a few others around then too. Neilson is just really really stubborn and seems he would rather try to fit his favourites into a system that they do not suit rather than play a way which compliments the squad at his disposal. We are clearly not going to agree, I would rather enjoy watching a team set up to utilise its best players in their best positions and attack opposition teams. If you are content with the same out of position, slow, huff and puff style stuff that Neilson always reverts to then that is also your right. I have found teams who play well tend to win more often than teams that put in terrible performances. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 If Neilson was putting out his best team in the best formation I would back him win, lose or draw. That’s not what’s happening. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, arab_joe said: A reasonable summation would be that some supporters are moaning when we are coming off our best run in years. McMullan's introduction changed the game. A masterstroke from Neilson. A reasonable summation wouldn't arrive at the conclusion that "McMullan's introduction changed the game". McMullan was brought on in the 53rd minute, but it wasn't until the 80th that Pawlett was removed and McMullan took over in his best position, centrally. The game changed for the better around that point, but it may also be that Arbroath were tiring. It might be fairer to say Pawlett's substitution gave us an advantage, and it is one that should have been made at half time given the player's fitness levels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: If Neilson was putting out his best team in the best formation I would back him win, lose or draw. That’s not what’s happening. Basically, this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin.Hood Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 If Neilson was putting out his best team in the best formation I would back him win, lose or draw. That’s not what’s happening. What do United fans actually want? Neilson has won 5 games out of 6... playing shite football and playing shite formations yet still managing to score more goals than the opposition bar one game.If you play really good football and lose them you will want him punted.He has everything to lose right now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 7 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said: What do United fans actually want? Neilson has won 5 games out of 6... playing shite football and playing shite formations yet still managing to score more goals than the opposition bar one game. If you play really good football and lose them you will want him punted. He has everything to lose right now. Imagine playing his best team and formation AND winning games? Madness, I know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin.Hood Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Imagine playing his best team and formation AND winning games? Madness, I know.What's his best team and formation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 For me it would be the team and formation v Dundee after Butcher was moved into defence. 442. 2 proper strikers and two wide players that can take a man on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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