2019/20 Challenge Cup

[peternapper]

Be interesting to see some of the Colt/U21 line up this season when a number of teams have packed in the Development & reserve leagues, with less players available to choose from will more 1st team extras be included. I am still of the opinion they should not be included. Hope that Formartine can get the better of Livy this week as I would go to a game against Formartine although these games are included in our season ticket I would not be attending a game v Livy Colts. The other thing that was mentioned by someone the other night was that the inclusion of foreign teams last season led to nearly £100,000 being taken out of the Scottish game.

[Mick1867]

18 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

QP v Celtic Big Laddies on Tuesday. No idea how this will go. We've a more physical team this year so hopefully we'll compete and take our chances. Some will stay away in protest but I'll be shouting for my team in the hope of having another run like last year. League's most important but a bit of fun along the way would be nice too.

Aye. Can't say I'm particularly looking forward to this game but I'll still be there. Hopefully Roberts will take the opportunity to rest any players carrying knocks and give some others a chance. Would like to see  Alfie on from the start and might be a good game to give Gibby a run out

Edited August 5, 2019 by Mick1867

[BinoBalls]

On 02/08/2019 at 12:46, HibeeJibee said:

It's impossible to predict: partly as you can't tell how many over agers and "young" (i.e. 21 or under) first-teamers the 'B' teams will use; and partly as you can't tell if the proper clubs (those in SPFL especially) will field full-strength XI nor where some of the non-leaguers sit in quality terms.

On the face of it Rangers 'B', Celtic 'B' and perhaps Hearts 'B' will be favourites - but you could easily cite say another 3-4 prospects (e.g. Motherwell/Hibs/Livingston/etc.).

Is there nothing in the rules about the number of over-agers allowed in the U-21 teams?  It would be a cheek calling them U-21 if they can play half a team over 30 year olds.

[HibeeJibee]

They can field 3 over-agers (or 2?) and anyone who hadn't turned 21 on 1st January, IIRC.

[Bring Your Own Socks]

7 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

They can field 3 over-agers (or 2?) and anyone who hadn't turned 21 on 1st January, IIRC.

Was that the same when they were called Colts, or another change sneaked in this year to help the Premiership teams?

[craigkillie]

Was that the same when they were called Colts, or another change sneaked in this year to help the Premiership teams?

That has been the case since the start.

[peternapper]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

4 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

Was that the same when they were called Colts, or another change sneaked in this year to help the Premiership teams?

That has been the case since the start.

Of course the main change came when Doncaster & Co pandered to the Old Firm wanting them to have teams in the lower leagues, eventually including the other ten Premier League sides when it did not work out. The competition while not going to have any real appeal to big team supporters it was a chance for glory to lower league clubs with the chance to win a trophy. Believe the inclusion of non Scottish teams led to nearly £100,000 being lost to the Scottish game. Hopefully the games involving  Colt/U21 teams continue to be shunned by supporters of clubs that the competition was meant for.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, peternapper said:

The competition while not going to have any real appeal to big team supporters it was a chance for glory to lower league clubs with the chance to win a trophy. 

And how exactly has that changed? Last season saw a part-time League One team and a part-time League Two team reaching the semi-finals and only a shootout defeat to a Welsh rabble stopped the latter from reaching the final as well. The season before saw part-time Dumbarton contest their first national cup final in over a century. 

Stop taking your shite, nonsensical hot takes from that berk Jim McInally and try engaging your brain cells next time. 

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, peternapper said:

Of course the main change came when Doncaster & Co pandered to the Old Firm wanting them to have teams in the lower leagues, eventually including the other ten Premier League sides when it did not work out. The competition while not going to have any real appeal to big team supporters it was a chance for glory to lower league clubs with the chance to win a trophy. Believe the inclusion of non Scottish teams led to nearly £100,000 being lost to the Scottish game. Hopefully the games involving  Colt/U21 teams continue to be shunned by supporters of clubs that the competition was meant for.

Going to need to see some evidence for that.

[Mick1867]

36 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Going to need to see some evidence for that.

I think that was the bar bill for the QP support down at TNS

[Im_Rodger]

Good luck to all the non U21 sides today.

Hopefully they are extinct after this round. 

[Bring Your Own Socks]

If it really was for the greater good of Scottish fitba I’d be content with it. Our co-efficient for European cup games is so low we probably won’t have any teams in the Europa Cup when Europa 2 starts. But it’s just about getting young players match ready for a transfer fee.

Scotland’s actually one of the last in Europe to develop this. Pep Guardiola won his first title as manager with Barcelona B in 2008, Spanish fourth tier league. Can’t see the tide turning. It’s a catch-22. Pump the wee teams and their club’s will whine this is why they need in the league. Let them win and SPFL say it’s working!

[WeAreElgin]

Aye, but a free Tunnocks wafer at the gates tonight. Progress.

[HibeeJibee]

9 hours ago, craigkillie said:

12 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

Was that the same when they were called Colts, or another change sneaked in this year to help the Premiership teams?

That has been the case since the start.

Over-agers definitely weren't permitted initially. I'll not be spot on here but I think it went U19s, U20s + over-agers (initially called "mentors" ), U21s + over-agers over 3 previous seasons.

[cowdenbeath]

3 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Over-agers definitely weren't permitted initially. I'll not be spot on here but I think it went U19s, U20s + over-agers (initially called "mentors" ), U21s + over-agers over 3 previous seasons.

Sure it was always under 20s I remember we played Celtic in the 1st season and it was their under 20 side with Kristoffer Ajer who had cost 500k and capped by Norway playing

[HibeeJibee]

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Going to need to see some evidence for that.

It was reported across various news platforms in the autumn. Peterhead went on record objecting to the amount of prizemoney and travel grants being paid to foreign teams.

E.g. this report in Aberdeenshire Evening Express which cites between £91,000 and £99,000 as having been paid out upto R3:

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/sport/football/scottish-football/fears-as-irn-bru-cash-fizzles-out-of-scotland/

It would end-up substantially more as Connahs Quay went another 3 rounds and Bohemians another round, and Connahs Quay played another 2 away ties.

You would admittedly have to deduct whatever is received from S4C for televising Welsh clubs.

Edited August 6, 2019 by HibeeJibee

[HibeeJibee]

11 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

Sure it was always under 20s I remember we played Celtic in the 1st season and it was their under 20 side with Kristoffer Ajer who had cost 500k and capped by Norway playing

It may have been U20s first 2 seasons then. Over-agers definitely came in after the initial year.

I can recall on the first night Billy McKay scored in Ross County 'B's tie against Forfar and one of OF fielded someone freshly signed from Fiorentina or similar.

[RandomGuy.]

22 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

Sure it was always under 20s I remember we played Celtic in the 1st season and it was their under 20 side with Kristoffer Ajer who had cost 500k and capped by Norway playing

TBF Ajer was under 20 at the time, he only turned 21 this year. Theres no evidence I can find of over age players in the first season.

Second season there definitely overage players.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

It may have been U20s first 2 seasons then. Over-agers definitely came in after the initial year.

I can recall on the first night Billy McKay scored in Ross County 'B's tie against Forfar and one of OF fielded someone freshly signed from Fiorentina or similar.

Sevcolts played that big haddy number 9 against us.

[peternapper]

26 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

It was reported across various news platforms in the autumn. Peterhead went on record objecting to the amount of prizemoney and travel grants being paid to foreign teams.

E.g. this report in Aberdeenshire Evening Express which cites between £91,000 and £99,000 as having been paid out upto R3:

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/sport/football/scottish-football/fears-as-irn-bru-cash-fizzles-out-of-scotland/

It would end-up substantially more as Connahs Quay went another 3 rounds and Bohemians another round, and Connahs Quay played another 2 away ties.

You would admittedly have to deduct whatever is received from S4C for televising Welsh clubs.

Thanks for digging that out Hibee Jibee hopefully it clears up that loads of cash is being handed out to non Scottish sides.

The only thing I have against the Colt teams is that right from the start the Challenge Cup was just being used as a tool to get entry into the league system which would have led to some teams having more than one team in the league system which would have restricted proper teams like Edinburgh or Cove  earning a league place. There was all the guff about creating international players because of experience gained against part time lower league players. Colt teams have added nothing to the competition & if more teams were needed they should have come from the HFL &  LL. Good to see  Jim still gets a reaction from Virginton even although he was the only one to mention him.