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Clyde FC; Season 2022-23


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2 hours ago, Aufc said:


Not really down with the legal detail but bizarre that he can be found guilty in one court but not the other.

It’s down to the burden of proof in a criminal case being higher than in a civil one.  Which boils down to was there corroboration .. which there wasn’t as the only ones in the room were the victim, Goodwillie and Robertson. I suggest you read the civil court findings .. it’s fkkn grim and paint Robertson and Goodwillie in the same light, albeit one left DNA the other didn’t. 

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I'm someone who was against the re-signing of Goodwillie. The majority of the supporters I sit with were against it too.

We're potentially going to lose our stadium and our club.

The idea that the team you have supported since a child's actual existence may be under threat because some idiot sponsor and his mates wanted their favourite player back.



 

Edited by haufdaft
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8 minutes ago, notsofedupendie said:

It’s down to the burden of proof in a criminal case being higher than in a civil one.  Which boils down to was there corroboration .. which there wasn’t as the only ones in the room were the victim, Goodwillie and Robertson. I suggest you read the civil court findings .. it’s fkkn grim and paint Robertson and Goodwillie in the same light, albeit one left DNA the other didn’t. 

Should’ve also said .. it didn’t go to a criminal court. The PF decided that without corroboration it was too difficult to prove guilt.  That PF needs binning asap.  

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3 minutes ago, support the underdog said:

I’m afraid you don’t only need a new ground you need a new board.

The decision to take back DGW, when the backlash was so obvious, was clearly insane. Insane as it was bound to split an already small and declining support, insane as most sponsors won’t touch trouble, insane from building the brand, and insane as you had got out of jail fairly freely and would likely have stayed up anyway which would have been a good achievement.

If the Board have any honour they will all agree to step down once credible alternatives have been found. They cannot continue. The shareholders need to ensure they are removed if they won’t go. But beware - hasty alternatives- this needs careful thought.

It will take a true strength of character now for the manager to motivate the players and get results. Good luck! If you subsequently go down don’t blame Lennon- he’s your best asset.

But now the posturing over possibly moving location will become reality. 18 months is not a long time.

What to do? The next few days are critical as if the clodhopping board continue to hide and not tackle  this head on what is now a crisis could end up ruining the club.

The brand needs very careful rebuilding.  The chairman needs to make a full and grovelling apology immediately. No excuses. Serious misjudgment.

He then needs to ask Broadwood and Clyde for a period of reflection on the contract. It should be reflection from both parties. 

This needs to be backed up with  remorse in the brand building process. Perhaps the transfer fee from Raith should go to charity? Many will say you can’t afford it but consider the long term brand implication. Whatever is decided it needs to be signifiant.

Next the shareholders need to find credible people to run this club. People who understand and want to build the brand, have a sustainable plan for stadium/ location etc and roots. Constantly policy shifts and not knowing where you are is a very  bad look.

the board have been fools- perhaps with genuine remorse and quickly they might stem the damage but it needs to be done very quickly.

I don't disagree with the general gist of your post but my reading of the situation is that the board called it spot on in telling Raith, after their initial approach, that they had no interest in having Goodwillie return to Clyde. The outcome of that approach was then communicated to the Glasgow Branch of Clyde supporters - whether that was the result of a board member or Goodwillie blabbing, I've no idea. Upon finding this out, the Glasgow Branch - in their infinite wisdom - started to make a lot of co-ordinated noise, which then brought an independently wealthy, long-time individual backer (and possibly also a club sponsor too) to allegedly threaten to withdraw all future funding of the club if the board didn't make a U-turn. I don't know the timeline of events, but allegedly there were also concurrent threats made to the board that enough membership numbers would be rallied to call for an EGM and force a vote on the board's future. I'd also be surprised if Danny Lennon wasn't very keen for the deal to be done himself, given his general level of job security at the moment and historical statements on Goodwillie.

As a result of these factors, the board seems to have been left in an almighty pickle with just a couple of days left of the loan window. I'm not even sure the footballing side of things was a consideration for them. Either they a) stuck to their guns and blocked Goodwillie's return, knowing that move would be harmful financially and very possibly result in their own forcible removal as board members or b) acquiesced, and caused the coming shitstorm. The former obviously looks like the much better choice as things stand, but only those with an inside knowledge of the club will know just how catastrophic that option could also have proved. Because of their being forced to choose between two utterly ruinous and high-risk outcomes, I don't apportion the crux of the blame to the board on this one. They get plenty wrong, but this seems like it was a total no-win scenario in terms of the club's health. If there are people with the relevant skills and the requisite affection and time to join the board, then new blood would of course be welcome - but as I alluded to above, those who know Clyde well will know that the club has struggled in terms of attracting or harbouring quality boardroom assets for many years now. That struggle has just become profoundly more biting.  

The board's next move is extremely important. I'm not sure whether their best move would be to be totally transparent about the series of events, but a robust and sincere statement has to come very soon, and it has to categorically state that David Goodwillie will never again play for Clyde FC. What happens with NLC will depend on how relations between the parties have been of late. They definitely improved circa 2018 through to 2020, but I suspect the board's decision to re-evaluate (again!) where the club's future lies has fractured the relationship somewhat even before now. We are in a horribly weak position to negotiate now, but we have to secure our future for the coming years so that we have a foundation from which to rebuild and try to gradually repair some of the seismic damage done to the club's reputation in recent years. When Goodwillie initially moved to Raith Rovers, I thought that this task would be tough to accomplish. It'll take some doing now.

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Please don't take this as any kind of support for Goodwillie or Clyde but can North Lanarkshire Council ban someone for something they've never had a criminal conviction for? It seems a bit of a slippery slope. If, somehow, some other desperate wee team with a stupid board, like Falkirk, were to sign Goodwillie would his ban from Broadwood still exist? I doubt the away team or the SPFL would be keen on that. Can NLC ban Craig Thomson for being a nonce if Clyde play Cowdenbeath? 

Again no sympathy for Goodwillie or Clyde in this situation, I'm pointing and laughing as much as the next person, but the... process of it seems strange. 

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1 hour ago, The_BullyWee said:

Well done Glasgow Branch, hope you guys are happy.

It’s just unbelievable that people could not see where this would go, it has to go down as one of the most ridiculous decisions a football club has ever made.

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33 minutes ago, Rio 2 said:

You obviously didn't read the full court report and the judges findings, which were posted earlier in the thread.

Have a look and you may come to a different conclusion.

The rape talk and legal stuff has been done to death so I'm reticent to go into it too much more, but unfortunately you need a lot more than convincing character statements to prove rape beyond reasonable doubt, as is the threshold for a criminal conviction. In this instance the evidence would also likely have had to feature a next-day blood sample to be able to determine the victim's blood alcohol levels (and therefore level of cognitive impairment at the time of the offence), alongside rather intrusive DNA samples soon after to prove that... well, you know.  

 

6 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Please don't take this as any kind of support for Goodwillie or Clyde but can North Lanarkshire Council ban someone for something they've never had a criminal conviction for? It seems a bit of a slippery slope. If, somehow, some other desperate wee team with a stupid board, like Falkirk, were to sign Goodwillie would his ban from Broadwood still exist? I doubt the away team or the SPFL would be keen on that. Can NLC ban Craig Thomson for being a nonce if Clyde play Cowdenbeath? 

Again no sympathy for Goodwillie or Clyde in this situation, I'm pointing and laughing as much as the next person, but the... process of it seems strange. 

I don't profess to know any of the legal ins and outs of it whatsoever but if NLC own the land and building then I don't really see any reason why they couldn't get a legal order, in this instance especially, to prohibit certain individuals from entering the stadium or being present on the land they own. There's definitely a bit of explaining to do on their end, though, as companies house declares NLC as being a party with significant control over North Lanarkshire Leisure Ltd. The logical inference from this would be that NLC likely did have a say over NLL decision-making, contrary to the statement made earlier. With a local council election coming up, their attempts to distance themselves from any harbouring of Goodwillie for the last five years could be a piece of opportunistic politicking.

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1 hour ago, the_bully_wee said:

Did a bit of digging to make sure I wasn't havering utter shite here, but what I remembered does appear to have been the case - 

 

image.thumb.png.7aec66dd31cfaa5bd0a4f1843d9abb56.png

 

Not to try to deflect any attention away from Clyde or Goodwillie here, but it was entirely needless for NLC to try and exonerate themselves from any kind of responsibility for Clyde's continuing presence at Broadwood. Their statement would've been sufficient without that wild attempt to rewrite history.

I thought it poor on the Council's part, to roll up the ending of Clyde's tenancy in the same statement. But they don't get to think they've clean shoes, given it wasn't an issue for NLC until he re-signed for Clyde. There's no material change, to that effect, been notified to Companies House, in the last 5/6 weeks since his move to Kirkcaldy was announced. Their decision & threat to terminate are enough, but that should have been their position back in 2017.

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Please don't take this as any kind of support for Goodwillie or Clyde but can North Lanarkshire Council ban someone for something they've never had a criminal conviction for? It seems a bit of a slippery slope. If, somehow, some other desperate wee team with a stupid board, like Falkirk, were to sign Goodwillie would his ban from Broadwood still exist? I doubt the away team or the SPFL would be keen on that. Can NLC ban Craig Thomson for being a nonce if Clyde play Cowdenbeath? 

Again no sympathy for Goodwillie or Clyde in this situation, I'm pointing and laughing as much as the next person, but the... process of it seems strange. 
Is Goodwillie banned from all NLC gyms, libraries and community halls?

Is Alex Salmond?

Is Ronaldo banned from playing football in North Lanarkshire?


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Please don't take this as any kind of support for Goodwillie or Clyde but can North Lanarkshire Council ban someone for something they've never had a criminal conviction for? It seems a bit of a slippery slope. If, somehow, some other desperate wee team with a stupid board, like Falkirk, were to sign Goodwillie would his ban from Broadwood still exist? I doubt the away team or the SPFL would be keen on that. Can NLC ban Craig Thomson for being a nonce if Clyde play Cowdenbeath? 

Again no sympathy for Goodwillie or Clyde in this situation, I'm pointing and laughing as much as the next person, but the... process of it seems strange. 
There is a clause in the contract which allows the council to ban from Broadwood anyone they deem to have exhibited unacceptable behaviour.

You could argue that it is pretty flimsy and Goodwillie has been playing at Broadwood previously up until January 2022 but you would like to think that even our board aren't stupid enough to double down on their stance and come out swinging for the council.
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14 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Please don't take this as any kind of support for Goodwillie or Clyde but can North Lanarkshire Council ban someone for something they've never had a criminal conviction for? It seems a bit of a slippery slope. If, somehow, some other desperate wee team with a stupid board, like Falkirk, were to sign Goodwillie would his ban from Broadwood still exist? I doubt the away team or the SPFL would be keen on that. Can NLC ban Craig Thomson for being a nonce if Clyde play Cowdenbeath? 

Again no sympathy for Goodwillie or Clyde in this situation, I'm pointing and laughing as much as the next person, but the... process of it seems strange. 

I’d imagine they could. For example If you were renting your house out to a lady who had an on/off boyfriend who was a known dealer and you didn’t want him anywhere near the place, you could perhaps stick a clause in the contract to such. Even just ‘no pets’ might work under the same principle; if it’s your property, you’ve got a certain amount of say on who’s in it? Not sure how it’d be codified in law tho. @Day of the Lords, you any idea? 

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3 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

There is a clause in the contract which allows the council to ban from Broadwood anyone they deem to have exhibited unacceptable behaviour.

You could argue that it is pretty flimsy and Goodwillie has been playing at Broadwood previously up until January 2022 but you would like to think that even our board aren't stupid enough to double down on their stance and come out swinging for the council.

That’s a bold statement.

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1 minute ago, carpetmonster said:

I’d imagine they could. For example If you were renting your house out to a lady who had an on/off boyfriend who was a known dealer and you didn’t want him anywhere near the place, you could perhaps stick a clause in the contract to such. Even just ‘no pets’ might work under the same principle; if it’s your property, you’ve got a certain amount of say on who’s in it? Not sure how it’d be codified in law tho. @Day of the Lords, you any idea? 

I know from working in pubs the pubs can, and do, ban whoever the f**k they like whenever they like for whatever they like. I thought there may be some difference with this being a public body. Also wonder if Clyde could have some argument that NLC are breaching the terms of the contract by not letting them play their players at the place the rent to do exactly that. 

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10 minutes ago, kiddy said:

I thought it poor on the Council's part, to roll up the ending of Clyde's tenancy in the same statement. But they don't get to think they've clean shoes, given it wasn't an issue for NLC until he re-signed for Clyde. There's no material change, to that effect, been notified to Companies House, in the last 5/6 weeks since his move to Kirkcaldy was announced. Their decision & threat to terminate are enough, but that should have been their position back in 2017.

I don't have any problem with the perceived hypocrisy of the council allowing Goodwillie for five years and then all of a sudden hitting the nuclear launch button like this upon his return a month later, because times change, people change, and for all we know there are new people calling the shots. The big problem I have is if - and I must stress, this is an if - it transpires that NLC did actually have a degree of autonomy over the policies and decision-making processes of NLL, as looks likely from that companies house listing. To then attempt to rewrite history with a tone of "well actually, we've opposed this all along!" would be enormously misleading.

Edited by the_bully_wee
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25 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Please don't take this as any kind of support for Goodwillie or Clyde but can North Lanarkshire Council ban someone for something they've never had a criminal conviction for? It seems a bit of a slippery slope. If, somehow, some other desperate wee team with a stupid board, like Falkirk, were to sign Goodwillie would his ban from Broadwood still exist? I doubt the away team or the SPFL would be keen on that. Can NLC ban Craig Thomson for being a nonce if Clyde play Cowdenbeath? 

Again no sympathy for Goodwillie or Clyde in this situation, I'm pointing and laughing as much as the next person, but the... process of it seems strange. 

He may not have a rape conviction, but I believe he has been convicted of other serious crimes, has he not?

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