Clyde FC; Season 2022-23

[Katia]

On 04/02/2022 at 21:29, Bullyweeno1 said:

Personally I think there will be no story after a day if he was to come back

There would be no sponsors pulling out as they were all there when he was there

There will be no one in the club who will leave as they were all there when he was there

There will be no celebrity fan looking to kick up a fuss - we only have Dougie Donnelly and John Mason and neither of them has the influence of Val McDermid

There will be no disassociation of the woman’s team as we don’t have one (as far as I’m aware and even if we do they were there when he was)

There will be no harm with the local community as we never have  had any community links for years

There was no impact on attendances when he first joined - the average home attendance for the first 6 games after he joined was actually higher than the 6 games before he joined

All the club needs to do is take the stance that it took 5 years ago and since - every individual has the right to rebuild their life once they have paid their dues to society as deemed by the court of law they are tried in.  We aided DGW in his rehabilitation in getting his life back on track

If you think that someone doesn’t deserve that then it goes against the whole moral fabric of a civilised society.  

It was only last week that he came on as sub and won the free kick that lead to the goal that won the game.  There was no issues with him then so why now

I was expecting there to be some fall and sure DGW and his advisors would think the same.  They and the RR board didnt foresee the influence that Val McDermid would have in making it a national and an international story - as was shown in RR first and second statement.

If he had moved to Falkirk, the other club interested in signing him, I have no doubt he would be lining up to make his debut tomorrow

The high profile cases of Mendy and Greenwood were news at the wrong time for him.

 

 

 

 

 

As said before, rehabilitation requires admission and remorse. So do not kid yourself.

I do not doubt Clyde fans would have him back given the chants at New Bayview on Saturday. Claiming Goodwillie as 'one of your own' and derogatory chants about Val McDermid. I do think your sponsors would be concerned if you took him back. I shall be missing the match this weekend because I do not want to spend money with Clyde FC. 

Finally, the whole moral fibre of a civilised society would have prosecuted Goodwill in a court of law. Non-consensual sex is rape and he was not punished for that.

[SLClyde]

45 minutes ago, Katia said:

As said before, rehabilitation requires admission and remorse. So do not kid yourself.

I do not doubt Clyde fans would have him back given the chants at New Bayview on Saturday. Claiming Goodwillie as 'one of your own' and derogatory chants about Val McDermid. I do think your sponsors would be concerned if you took him back. I shall be missing the match this weekend because I do not want to spend money with Clyde FC. 

Finally, the whole moral fibre of a civilised society would have prosecuted Goodwill in a court of law. Non-consensual sex is rape and he was not punished for that.

There’s been plenty on this thread saying they wouldn’t have him back, if you cared enough to read through it rather than a small number singing on Saturday. 

[CM.]

1 hour ago, Katia said:

 I shall be missing the match this weekend because I do not want to spend money with Clyde FC.

Has that always been your stance in recent years or just this week?

[Cosmic Joe]

There has only been one victim in this whole sorry debacle. And sadly, she has been brushed aside and forgotten. 

[Bullyweeno1]

15 hours ago, Katia said:

Finally, the whole moral fibre of a civilised society would have prosecuted Goodwill in a court of law. Non-consensual sex is rape and he was not punished for that.

Totally agree that rape is a heinous act up there with murder as the worst type of crimes one human can commit against another.

If the PF thought that they could have secured a guilty verdict then they would have pressed ahead with the case and if found guilty then the accused deserved all they get as they have been proven beyond all reasonable doubt of their crime.

The bar to be met under civil court is very much lower and comes down the who the judge believes has the more plausible case on the balance of probabilities.

However my main argument is that should a human being found guilty in court and having met their obligation as deemed by that court of what they are due to pay then be excluded from having any life after they have met their obligation?

If so then would need to disagree with that view as would mean anyone found guilty of a crime once they have served their time/paid their dues are not allowed to reintegrate back into society which goes against the whole ethos of a moral and civilised society

[BullyWeeLad]

Bring him home.

[haufdaft]

Bring him home.

Leave him in Fife

[Brian Carrigan]

1 hour ago, Bullyweeno1 said:

If so then would need to disagree with that view as would mean anyone found guilty of a crime once they have served their time/paid their dues are not allowed to reintegrate back into society which goes against the whole ethos of a moral and civilised society

That may have been a kernel of sense in what you're saying if 'reintegrate back into society' and 'being a professional footballer and a role model' were in any way interchangeable.

He was INCREDIBLY lucky to have what he had at Clyde. A wife, child, home, career and sidebar as a part-time professional footballer are not often privileges furnished upon men who have been deemed to be a rapist. This whole situation has further shone a light onto who he is as a person, if we didn't know full well already. Not that it made it any more acceptable, but we're not currently in a position where signing him could be the difference between L2 safety or the club imploding and ceasing to exist upon relegation.

He should not be re-signed.

[bullywee2010]

19 minutes ago, Brian Carrigan said:

That may have been a kernel of sense in what you're saying if 'reintegrate back into society' and 'being a professional footballer and a role model' were in any way interchangeable.

He was INCREDIBLY lucky to have what he had at Clyde. A wife, child, home, career and sidebar as a part-time professional footballer are not often privileges furnished upon men who have been deemed to be a rapist. This whole situation has further shone a light onto who he is as a person, if we didn't know full well already. Not that it made it any more acceptable, but we're not currently in a position where signing him could be the difference between L2 safety or the club imploding and ceasing to exist upon relegation.

He should not be re-signed.

Appreciate everyone has differing views on this but my understanding on criminal justice my whole life was that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers. This has not happened in this case and Goodwillie has always maintained his innocence. The PF determined there was not evidence to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt and, therefore, in the eyes of the law he is innocent. In my view, it is dangerous precedent to start branding people a 'rapist' based on the balance of probabilities given the impact that then has for the rest of their life. 

I agree something needs to be done due to criminal convictions being so low but doing it through a civil court I do not think is the way. He was ordered to pay damages in a civil ruling, which were seized on sale of his home, and should now be allowed to continue his life. This man is now effectively treated as if he had a criminal record for the alleged offence and is on the register, even though neither are true and the PF believe there is reasonable doubt. This goes against the basic principle behind the criminal justice system.

At the end of the day he can get a PVG disclosure if required and if he was not a well known name in football but any regular guy applying for a job, even one that what involve working with children, there would be no issue. He has shown nothing but exemplary behaviour since he joined Clyde and my view is he should be allowed to return if he wishes and Danny Lennon wants him. 

[Brian Carrigan]

32 minutes ago, bullywee2010 said:

Appreciate everyone has differing views on this but my understanding on criminal justice my whole life was that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers. This has not happened in this case and Goodwillie has always maintained his innocence. The PF determined there was not evidence to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt and, therefore, in the eyes of the law he is innocent. In my view, it is dangerous precedent to start branding people a 'rapist' based on the balance of probabilities given the impact that then has for the rest of their life. 

I agree something needs to be done due to criminal convictions being so low but doing it through a civil court I do not think is the way. He was ordered to pay damages in a civil ruling, which were seized on sale of his home, and should now be allowed to continue his life. This man is now effectively treated as if he had a criminal record for the alleged offence and is on the register, even though neither are true and the PF believe there is reasonable doubt. This goes against the basic principle behind the criminal justice system.

At the end of the day he can get a PVG disclosure if required and if he was not a well known name in football but any regular guy applying for a job, even one that what involve working with children, there would be no issue. He has shown nothing but exemplary behaviour since he joined Clyde and my view is he should be allowed to return if he wishes and Danny Lennon wants him. 

See, this just highlights a wider issue.

It's notoriously very difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt the crime that he committed. A quick look at the general statistics relating to rape convictions will tell you this. A read of the court documents, which admittedly I didn't do when he first signed, will tell you what you need to know.

By accepting him in this club, we have all been complicit in allowing this situation to unfold. The least we can do for his victim, her family and all victims of rape/sexual abuse who have been put through hell by having this dragged back into public consciousness is to stand up and not allow history to repeat itself. Raith Rovers fans have showed us how we should have responded collectively the first time round. It'd be doing victims a disservice if we didn't follow suit.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Brian Carrigan

[19QOS19]

Appreciate everyone has differing views on this but my understanding on criminal justice my whole life was that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers. This has not happened in this case and Goodwillie has always maintained his innocence.*

The PF determined there was not evidence to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt and, therefore, in the eyes of the law he is innocent. In my view, it is dangerous precedent to start branding people a 'rapist' based on the balance of probabilities given the impact that then has for the rest of their life.**
 
I agree something needs to be done due to criminal convictions being so low but doing it through a civil court I do not think is the way. He was ordered to pay damages in a civil ruling, which were seized on sale of his home, and should now be allowed to continue his life.***

This man is now effectively treated as if he had a criminal record for the alleged offence and is on the register, even though neither are true and the PF believe there is reasonable doubt. This goes against the basic principle behind the criminal justice system.
At the end of the day he can get a PVG disclosure if required and if he was not a well known name in football but any regular guy applying for a job, even one that what involve working with children, there would be no issue.****

He has shown nothing but exemplary behaviour since he joined Clyde and my view is he should be allowed to return if he wishes and Danny Lennon wants him.*****

* He was found guilty by a judge.

** It's extremely difficult to prove rape, particularly when the victim does the natural thing and cleans themselves straight after being assaulted. The "precedent" right now is heavily in favour of the scumbags getting away with it. If you've read the court transcript and DON'T think he did it then I'd find that genuinely troubling.

*** Rapists are among the biggest c***s in our society but even if you do believe he should be allowed to live his life, he shouldn't be allowed such a privileged position.

**** He's treated exactly the way any rapist should be treated in a civilised society. I'd say he's been treated better than most rapists if you look back at point ***. I'm pretty sure if he applied to work in a children's home/women's shelter the fact he's a rapist would flag up.

***** He hasn't raped anyone else since joining Clyde you mean?



On a different note. I'm surprised those Clyde fans who support this scumbag would want him back anyway. As if he has any kind of loyalty to you. He got a gig at the only club who would touch him with a barge pole, was probably the highest paid player in the division (most seasons) and has jumped ship for one final payday. My response as Goodwillie loving Clyde fan would be 'You've made your bed. Lie in it'.

[BullyWeeStonehouse]

Can we all stop trying to fucking defend Goodie. The constant arguing and whataboutery is tedious man.
 

As has been said above by 19QOS19, he jumped ship at the first serious opportunity of a bigger club and more money a matter of months after saying he wanted to stay with us until he retired and it’s backfired spectacularly for him. We would look outrageously stupid to take him back with open arms for that reason alone, never mind the massive outcry in the media about his personal life. The long term damage of re-signing him now far outweighs the short term benefits of him returning for a couple more seasons.

No matter what your opinion of him is on the park and off the park, he’s gone. He’s a Raith player now (for the time being).
 

Aye, He saved us from almost certain relegation to the LL and god knows what else (which we are all more than grateful for) and is without a doubt the most talented footballer we’ve seen in about 40 or 50 years at Clyde, but stop acting like heartbroken teenagers and move on. It’s football, players come and players go all the time. Nobody knows this better than us with the high turnover of players we’ve had in the last 10-15 seasons.

We’ve got a full squad of other players to support for the rest of the season and hopefully a positive recruitment period during the summer to fill the voids left behind.

Edited February 8, 2022 by BullyWeeStonehouse

[Bullyweeno1]

2 hours ago, bullywee2010 said:

Appreciate everyone has differing views on this but my understanding on criminal justice my whole life was that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a jury of your peers. This has not happened in this case and Goodwillie has always maintained his innocence. The PF determined there was not evidence to prove anything beyond reasonable doubt and, therefore, in the eyes of the law he is innocent. In my view, it is dangerous precedent to start branding people a 'rapist' based on the balance of probabilities given the impact that then has for the rest of their life. 

I agree something needs to be done due to criminal convictions being so low but doing it through a civil court I do not think is the way. He was ordered to pay damages in a civil ruling, which were seized on sale of his home, and should now be allowed to continue his life. This man is now effectively treated as if he had a criminal record for the alleged offence and is on the register, even though neither are true and the PF believe there is reasonable doubt. This goes against the basic principle behind the criminal justice system.

At the end of the day he can get a PVG disclosure if required and if he was not a well known name in football but any regular guy applying for a job, even one that what involve working with children, there would be no issue. He has shown nothing but exemplary behaviour since he joined Clyde and my view is he should be allowed to return if he wishes and Danny Lennon wants him. 

100% agree with this.  

Dont think it is in DGW or DL hands if he rejoins but will be the board decision and wouldnt expect they want it even if a majority of owners want it.

[Hampden Diehard]

19 hours ago, SLClyde said:

There’s been plenty on this thread saying they wouldn’t have him back, if you cared enough to read through it rather than a small number singing on Saturday. 

You do, though, seem to have a few who take the term "utter fuckwits" to a new level.

[SLClyde]

2 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

You do, though, seem to have a few who take the term "utter fuckwits" to a new level.

There are a few not doing the club any favours, I just wanted to point out that it is by far and away not a majority of fans wanting him back. 

[BrigtonClyde]

17 minutes ago, SLClyde said:

I just wanted to point out that it is by far and away not a majority of fans wanting him back. 

Just out of interest, how did you come to the conclusion ?  If you mean the majority of those who've voiced an opinion on P&B that would seem about right, but P&B is irrelevant.  There's what, a dozen or so regular posters left, maybe a couple dozen gave their thoughts on it.  You could of course be right, I've personally no idea, but just wondering how you'd manage to work out what the majority of Clyde fans think about this or any other subject and present it as a statement of fact.   Was a questionnaire sent out to everyone I'm not aware of ? 

[BullyWeeStonehouse]

17 minutes ago, BrigtonClyde said:

Just out of interest, how did you come to the conclusion ?  If you mean the majority of those who've voiced an opinion on P&B that would seem about right, but P&B is irrelevant.  There's what, a dozen or so regular posters left, maybe a couple dozen gave their thoughts on it.  You could of course be right, I've personally no idea, but just wondering how you'd manage to work out what the majority of Clyde fans think about this or any other subject and present it as a statement of fact.   Was a questionnaire sent out to everyone I'm not aware of ? 

Going by Twitter, Facebook, p&b and word of mouth it’s a fair split in opinion I’d say.

Edited February 8, 2022 by BullyWeeStonehouse

[Bob731]

No matter what, the likelihood of ANYTHING happening soon should be sidelined. The focus for the time being is what other loanees can be brought in until the end of the season… especially in midfield and up front. Are we forgetting that we are now left with Jones, the elder statesman Tade and young Jamieson to try and get us enough goals to hit a safe total of around 44/45 points and hoping Cunningham will be match fit too soon. Let’s try and ask the board these questions to get through the next 12 games. 

[SLClyde]

25 minutes ago, BrigtonClyde said:

Just out of interest, how did you come to the conclusion ?  If you mean the majority of those who've voiced an opinion on P&B that would seem about right, but P&B is irrelevant.  There's what, a dozen or so regular posters left, maybe a couple dozen gave their thoughts on it.  You could of course be right, I've personally no idea, but just wondering how you'd manage to work out what the majority of Clyde fans think about this or any other subject and present it as a statement of fact.   Was a questionnaire sent out to everyone I'm not aware of ? 

My point was it’s not a majority saying they want him back, which some posters on here would have you believe. I’ve probably seen more say they wouldn’t than would but not by a great deal. 

[Cosmic Joe]

1 hour ago, BullyWeeStonehouse said:

Can we all stop trying to fucking defend Goodie. The constant arguing and whataboutery is tedious man.
 

As has been said above by 19QOS19, he jumped ship at the first serious opportunity of a bigger club and more money a matter of months after saying he wanted to stay with us until he retired and it’s backfired spectacularly for him. We would look outrageously stupid to take him back with open arms for that reason alone, never mind the massive outcry in the media about his personal life. The long term damage of re-signing him now far outweighs the short term benefits of him returning for a couple more seasons.

No matter what your opinion of him is on the park and off the park, he’s gone. He’s a Raith player now (for the time being).
 

Aye, He saved us from almost certain relegation to the LL and god knows what else (which we are all more than grateful for) and is without a doubt the most talented footballer we’ve seen in about 40 or 50 years at Clyde, but stop acting like heartbroken teenagers and move on. It’s football, players come and players go all the time. Nobody knows this better than us with the high turnover of players we’ve had in the last 10-15 seasons.

We’ve got a full squad of other players to support for the rest of the season and hopefully a positive recruitment period during the summer to fill the voids left behind.

I agree with you for the most part, but "jumping ship for £££" should not factor into this whole episode. 99 percent of part-time players in Scotland would probably accept a rise in wages and a pop at full-time fitba. 

David Goodwillie is at a turning point in his life, he has fucked it up so far. He needs to do a bit of thinking, and take a bit of advice about the way forward.